Council Meeting 2-5-2026

26 regular agenda
to the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it
stands one nation under God indivisible
with justice for all
call please
here. Marana here. Light here. Parker
here. Sykes
>> here.
>> Here. This is to advise that certain
advanced notice has been given to the
date, time, location, and to the extent
known the agenda of this meeting in
accordance with the provision of the
open public meeting act. And notice of
this meeting has been posted primarily
at the bulletin board in the municipal
complex lobby on the city's website and
communicated through the newspaper
designated by the governing body. This
is to further advise that this meeting
is being recorded electronically and can
be viewed on the city's website at
obsecanj.gov.
Before we start the meeting, I'd like to
take uh take a second and have a moment
of silence for uh John Dia senior who
recently passed away, longtime obscin
resident, former councilman who sat in
these chairs, and a former council
president. So, um if we could just take
a moment of silence, that'd be great.
Thank you.
And in honor of him, we'll
start the meeting.
2026 ordinances for introduction.
Ordinance for introduction 032026
capital ordinance providing for various
general capital improvements and
acquisition of various equipment by and
in the city of EPS appropriating
$120,000
therefore from the general capital fund
surplus to pay the cost therefore. May I
hear a motion?
>> Motion. Second. Anybody like to discuss?
Roll call, please.
>> Clark,
>> yes.
>> Evans,
>> yes.
>> Clarenda,
>> yes.
>> White,
>> yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes.
>> Spikes,
>> yes.
>> Yes. This ordinance will be posted, laid
over, and published according to law. A
public hearing, second, and final
reading will be held on February 19th,
2026.
Ordinance 04 amending the code of the
city of Obssein adding chapter 168
building moving of May I hear a motion.
Motion second. Uh discussion please.
Mayor, would you like to give a brief
update uh for any council members?
Correct me if I'm wrong. uh it's done.
But so in reading it, it seems as though
um
to be able to actually move a house or
raise a house within within the city
limits. It is
um there's a certain ordinance that's
adopted by other townships that is very
similar to this of the rules and
regulations as to what they would like
to see in terms of escros, fees, fines,
things of that nature for the ability to
be able to move.
>> Yeah. And it's really it often times
just comes down to a safety measure,
right? Um what you're doing a lot of
times with the escro fees and stuff
you're posting. There's times when your
police forces need it. you got to close
roads sometimes when you have oversized
buildings coming through EMS on site
when they're setting the house in case
anything occurs like that that's
somebody gets hurt. Um the other thing
that a lot of these ordinances do it
ensures I mean most of the time you're
moving a building from outside to inside
right so you have a building coming from
a third mun third third party
municipality you don't know what
inspections it's had you don't know what
it looks like you don't know what the
condition is this will incur require a
lot of approvals essentially to be in
place and inspections to occur before it
can come in here so that you can ensure
what's coming in is up to code so pretty
much what you're saying is at the end of
the day this is something we never had
before so we're putting it in and doing
our due diligence and protecting
ourselves.
>> And it's protecting us, the actual
homeowner, and the neighbor.
>> And it it has like hardline rules as to
like how much of the street can be
impeded at any given moment that you got
to be passable, how long it can actually
sit on the edge or in the street before
it has to be moved.
>> Yeah. Great.
>> Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Good. Y good.
Good. Yes.
>> No.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Clark,
>> yes. Evans, yes. Fire,
>> yes.
>> White,
>> yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes.
>> Sykes,
>> yes.
>> Yes. This ordinance will be posted, laid
over, and published according to law. A
public hearing, second, and final
reading will be held on February 19th,
2026.
Ordinance for adoption
amending the code of the city of Epsecin
chapter 251 rental housing adding uh
article 7 six
seven lead based paint inspections. Do I
hear a motion for the second reading of
this ordinance? Motion second.
>> Phone call, please.
>> Clark,
>> yes.
>> Evans,
>> yes.
>> Yes.
>> Light.
>> Yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes. Sykes,
>> yes.
>> Dur.
>> Yes.
Ordinance 2-2026
amending the code of the city repin
chapter 251 rental housing adding
article 7 leadbased paint inspections.
May I hear a motion to open the meeting
to the public to comment or discuss this
ordinance only?
>> Second.
>> All in favor?
>> I opposed. Would anybody from the public
like to speak on this ordinance and this
ordinance only?
May I hear a motion to close the meeting
to the public? Motion.
>> Second. All in favor?
>> Opposed?
>> May I hear a motion for the final
reading and adoption of ordinance
2-2026?
>> Motion.
>> Second.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Clark,
>> yes.
>> Evans,
>> yes.
>> Yes.
>> White,
>> yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes. Sykes,
>> yes.
>> Yes. Gordens 22026.
Amending the code of the city of obsein
chapter 251 rental housing adding
article 7 leadbased paint inspections.
This ordinance has been heard and is
finally approved.
Consent agenda. All matters listed under
item consent agenda are considered to be
routine by the city council and will be
enacted by one motion in the form
listed. There will be no separate
discussion of these items. If discussion
is desired desired that item will be
removed from the consent agenda and will
be discussed separately.
43 permitting a charitable organization
to solicit funds namely the Obsein
Galloway Rotary Club. 44. Authorizing to
cancel the property taxes for the first
and second quarters of 2026 on the
property located at 9 Andrea Lane. 45.
Authorizing the release of maintenance
guarantee posted by Dollar General
located at 705 South New Road. 46
authorizing the release of escrow funds
posted by Gary Gandalfi for property
known as 138C Crest View Avenue. 47
authorizing for emergency sewer pump
repair and replacement for the pump
stations throughout the city of Epsin.
48
authorizing for the maintenance and
repair to the city of Epsein vehicles
and fire trucks. 49. Authorizing the
acceptance of and when authorized the
release of various street opening permit
security deposits.
50. Authorizing the submission of a
grant application and the execution of a
grant contract with the New Jersey
Department of Community Affairs under
the fiscal year 2026 local recreation
improvements grant program for the
Pittney Park multi-use enclosed sports
facility. 51. Authorizing to enter into
a contract with Remington and Bernick
Engineers for planning and designing
services for the Obssein Estates
drainage improvements. 52. Authorizing
change order one, an increase for the
year 2024 NJ dot safe streets to transit
program Crestview Avenue pedestrian
safety improvements phase two.
Do I hear a motion to open the meeting
to the public for these agenda items
only? Motion. Second. All in favor? I
opposed.
Would anybody from the public like to
come and speak on these agenda items
only?
>> May I hear a motion to close the meeting
to the public?
>> Motion. Second.
>> All in favor?
>> I.
>> Opposed. Consent agenda. May I hear a
motion to move this consent agenda?
Motion.
>> Second.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Clark,
>> yes.
>> Evans,
>> yes.
>> Kimbo,
>> yes.
>> White,
>> yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes.
>> Sykes,
>> yes.
>> Yes. Approval of the bill list
$668,92846.
May I hear a motion to accept the bill
list?
>> Motion.
>> Second. Roll call, please.
>> Clark,
>> yes.
>> Evans,
>> yes. Latunda,
>> yes.
>> Write,
>> yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes.
>> Sykes,
>> yes.
>> Yes. Approval of the minutes. Regular
meeting minutes from January 22nd, 2026.
May I hear a motion to accept these
minutes?
>> Motion. Second. Roll call, please.
Clark,
>> yes.
>> Evans,
>> yes. Artunda,
>> yes.
>> White,
>> yes.
>> Parker,
>> yes. Sykes,
>> yes.
>> Yes. All right. At this time, we're
going to move to council committee
reports. I will start with Councilman
Launda.
>> Sure. We have not met this month uh for
code enforcement. Our first meeting will
be uh Tuesday, February 17th at 4 p.m.
Uh hope the residents can join us with
any concerns regarding code enforcement.
Thank you, sir. All sir,
>> thank you, President. Uh same, we've not
met this month either. We're going to
meet on Tuesday the 17th at 7:00 p.m.
It'll be parks and wreck. Um, a few
things to discuss with the upcoming
spring and uh we're going to try to get
a head start on some of those things.
>> Thank you, Councilwoman.
>> Uh, public safety met this past Monday
at 6:00 p.m. Um, the major theme of the
meeting was just this storm we had uh a
couple weeks ago and the dangers of the
ice and pipes bursting. Uh, the the fire
department has been very busy. Uh the
ambulance squad uh thanked the fire
department for allowing them to stay
there during the storm and the fire
department also had a standby crew
during the storm. Um and they've just
been dealing with a lot of broken pipes
and such since then. Uh chief um from
the police department asked everybody to
remember to clean off your cars. It is
actually a law to do so and it is very
dangerous to drive around with ice and
snow on your car. Danger to yourself,
other cars and pedestrians. Uh, I think
that's it for the meeting. We meet again
on the 2nd of March at 6 p.m. Captain,
do you have anything to add to that? Uh,
>> no. I think you covered it. Thank you.
>> Yeah, Councilwoman Edwards.
>> So, tonight was uh our first meeting for
community affairs. Uh, we did discuss
upcoming events. Um, the Easter egg
hunt. Uh, last year we moved it to a
Tuesday night. It was very successful.
We're going to continue with that this
year. Um, so it'll be the Tuesday before
Easter. Uh Easter falls on the April
5th, so it'll be August 31st. We're
looking at at 4:00.
>> March 31st. March 31st.
>> Oh, March 31st. Sorry. March 31st. Uh we
also talked about our senior brunch. Uh
last year it was held on the first uh
Saturday in May. Uh I'd like to continue
with the consistency with everything. So
we're going to roll with that also. Uh
but I will double check to make sure
that there is no other events that would
interfere with that. Um Memorial Day
parade obviously is Memorial Day
weekend. We briefly touched on that. And
um we'd like to look for any suggestions
for the 250ear celebration if anybody
wants to uh reach out to me or anybody
on the committee.
>> That's it.
>> Thank you.
>> Did we decide that we're meeting at 5
though from now? Yes, we did change it
because uh the council meeting now is at
6:00 and we usually or the hour before.
So tonight it was a brief one 5:30. So
next week we're going to move it to or
next month we'll move it till 5:00. So
we do have that hour to discuss things.
I know. I know. Thank you council
council. Okay. Thank you council
president. Finance we meet on February
19th. We have our first finance budget
meeting starting next week, February
12th at 6 p.m. Uh myself, our admin as
well as our CFO, we spent most of the
day and council president Rick D. Rose
most of the day today meeting with all
the departments and going over their
budget request for 2026, wrapping up
where they stood for 2025, which update
I gave at the last meeting and we are
looking forward to start putting stuff
together for our budget for 2026. Thank
you.
>> Thank you, Councilman Light. Thank you,
Mr. President. We met this week on the
the second Monday here at 5:00. We do
meet on the 3rd, excuse me, on the 2nd
of March. The items that we spoke about
this week, um we spoke about the
pedestrian grant, some of the options
that we have, things that we're
implementing, the our streets and roads
projects coming up for 2026.
and we're trying to work collectively
with trying to come up with a better
plan with record Atlantic Electric and
getting a better point of contact so
that our street lights and our
maintenance on the roads for Atlantic
Electric um are better served. Um,
that's all I have. And also, I'd just
like to say uh thank you as always to
public works uh and the police
department for working so diligently and
hard in the circumstances of the snow
and the ice and it was very difficult. I
appreciate and also I don't want to
forget the fire and EMT. So, there were
difficult times to work in this kind of
weather and ice. So, extend my
appreciation as well as residents. Thank
you.
>> Thank you, Councilman Lee. Um, I just
wanted to echo Councilwoman Parker on
the public safety effort during um, the
most recent storm and also public works
for uh, clearing our streets. Um, hate
to brag, but I would say that EPS were
pretty solid compared to the county
roads. Um, mostly the only complaints I
got in town were county roads and not
seeking roads. So, definitely proud of
that. So, kudos to public works and
public safety throughout the storm. Um,
that's really all I have. Uh, mayor,
>> I just uh again
uh want to thank our police department,
our public works for a great job during
that storm. I want to also thank our
residents. Um, this storm was probably a
once in a decade storm. The way it
snowed, turned to sleep, turned to rain,
and everything froze almost instantly. I
appreciate our residents patience in
getting roads clear and I'm very
impressed with our residents for how
hard they were out there shoveling and
working to to get all the frozen snow
off the ground.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Uh engineer report.
>> Thank you. Do you want to introduce
yourself since you've been here more
often than you're not Dennis?
So, uh as my name tag here says, I'm
Mickey Cosmo with Remington Engineers.
Um, and I'll just uh go over some quick
updates on on some of the engineering
projects with the city. Uh, so for the
Shore Road project, a couple quick
updates on that. The updated uh
interlocal agreement that was authorized
by the city in December has been sent
over to the county for full adoption and
uh we sent our updated plans addressing
all of the recent round of county
comments on January 19th back to the
county. So, right now we're just waiting
on final county approval and then
bidding of that project should follow uh
shortly after.
>> Just another quick update. I don't mean
to cut you off, Nick. I was on the phone
with the county today. Um and I do have
pictures when we're how the urgency of
this entire operation. It's bad enough
with the flooding, but if anybody saw it
or the police department had to close
road because there was two ice skating
rinks in the middle of the road. the
salt water from the creek actually came
up on the road and froze. So, this is
not getting better. It's only getting
worse and worse. So, I did discuss with
the county and I'm going to have to
connect with you guys. Okay.
>> Um and then a couple of updates. Um our
our 25 road program and and uh
repavement of Delaware Avenue are still
on hold. Uh waiting for the weather to
warm up, but you know, we'll we'll
resume construction on those in this in
the spring. Um we're continuing with
design on our pedestrian crosswalk
safety improvements. That's the raised
crosswalks project. Um and you know, we
hope to to bid and um begin construction
on that this coming spring as well. The
uh pedestrian crosswalk flashing beacons
on New Jersey Avenue are now installed
and operational. So that project is
finally complete.
>> I haven't passed it yet. Great. I
haven't been there yet.
>> Great. Um and uh and then the as as as
as was read out earlier, the um the the
resolution for the local recreation
improvement grant was on and um we'll be
applying for that grant. Um uh we'll be
submitting everything next week and uh
mayor I'll have a couple things for me
to sign early next week as well and
we'll get that submitted. And then other
than that, we're just focusing on the uh
2026 budget and planning out our
engineering projects for this upcoming
year. We have a couple DOT grants and um
as well as some NJ D I bank grants um
that that the city is going to take
advantage of.
>> Thank you, Nick. Uh Jessica,
>> I just wanted um to put out a reminder
that taxes are due uh on February 1st,
but we have a 10-day grace period and
even with the weather, we still have
only a 10day grace period. And I wanted
to thank public works um and reiterate
what everyone else has already said for
the hard work that was done during the
snowstorm. I appreciate them and I
appreciate that all the complaints that
came into city hall, they went out and
personally addressed. Um so I thank them
so much.
>> Thank you so much.
>> Thank you.
>> All right. May I hear a motion to open
this meeting to the public? Motion.
>> Second. All in favor?
>> I opposed. Anybody from the public like
to come up and speak? I just ask that
you state your name and your address,
please.
I still need your name.
>> Hello everyone. My name is Sandy
Hickerson. I live at 210 Upland Avenue.
Uh I believe all of you know me. Um, so
several months ago, I had reached out
to, I believe, all of you, most of you,
if not all of you, in regards to a
resolution uh for concealed carry permit
holders reimbursing uh the $150 fee. Um,
I've tried doing my due diligence with
you and sending you some information,
some some links to some articles,
different things like that. Uh,
President Cu, uh, Council President
Richard D. Rose suggested that I go to
the public works meeting, which I did
the other night, and uh, thank you so
much for that. Thank you for your time,
and I thank the police department for
what they do, their due diligence, um,
you know, with doing the background
checks, making sure that, you know, all
the tees are crossed, the eyes are
dotted, you know, we we definitely
appreciate all that. Um, but the fees
are just absolutely ridiculous. Um, and
I I came away a little little
disappointed from that meeting to be
honest because I felt like
it was basically said, oh well, you
know, the city is in a little bit of
financial crunch right now, which I get,
but that shouldn't be a b a burden left
on the law-abiding citizens. like there
was a a a comment made, you know, well,
maybe a couple of years from now when
we're a little better, we can revisit
this resolution
um and then move forward then. But
that's not fair
for us. Anyway, I'm I'm getting off
topic. I'm sorry. I forgot my glasses.
I can't see myself. But um but I was
just I wanted to encourage you to at
least put this on the agenda to bring it
up for discussion to um because
you know there's there's the um sorry
forgetting my words here.
>> All right, Sandy, take your time.
um when you do the background checks,
you know, for the state of New Jersey,
right, we have to have an FID card in
order to be uh in order to to own a
firearm in the state of New Jersey,
right? You have to have your FID to to
purchase. Then once you have your FID,
if you want to have uh purchase a
pistol, now you need another permit to
carry. You need another permit. Every
it's like money, money, money. When our
constitution says that it's my right,
the constitution is my FID. The FID
itself is unconstitutional. But here we
are in the state of New Jersey.
>> Amen.
>> So, right. So, fast forward now that we
can carry in the state. It's a $200 fee.
$50 goes to the state and then the other
$150 goes to the municipality.
But why is it that when you do a
background check for a pistol permit,
the fee used to be $2, it went up to
$25,
but now for the concealed carry permit,
it's $150. And it's the same background
check. I believe to the captain,
we can't it is um where I will say,
Sandy, just I apologize to cut you off.
One, I had a great conversation with the
mayors you put me in contact with. to um
how how Abigian government operates is
in order to put something on the agenda
because if I did it myself council I'm
not a king I I work with everybody so
what it has to come out of what's a
committee um when I suggested to you to
go to public safety I had no idea you
were literally going that day um so I
did I did personally didn't have an
opportunity to speak to anybody um what
I would suggest though is speaking with
the finance committee. If if the reason
is money, I would suggest
>> we sit down with the finance committee,
discuss it with the finance committee,
>> and then we go from there. How about
that?
>> That that I I think that was one of my
suggestions in our meeting the other
day. Um cuz I am on finance, too. So, I
kind of put on my finance hat for a
minute. And I what I one of the things I
brought up other than the service that
the police department provides does have
a price tag to it was that last year we
were reopening a lot of the fees in
town. So to raise some fees and get rid
of one was like kind of imbalancing
um something that we were trying to use
to even things out here like and get up
to speed. It was hard. Not that I don't
want to do this for you, but it was for,
you know, talking about the residents to
raise some fees and get rid of one
didn't seem like it was correct to me.
But I said it was something that should
be brought up to the finance to see if
it was doable.
>> Yes, I support it. So that's why Yeah,
we should talk to the finance committee
and discuss it. I I personally support
it. Um, so we can go. Unfortunately, I
can't vote on it because, as you're well
aware, um I think reducing the fee, I'd
be the only person on council that would
benefit from it, so I wouldn't be able
to vote on it. Um but, uh understanding
the background and being intimate with
the process and everything like that. I
I think it makes sense though for you to
meet with Alex with finance and
Christine and Nick, right?
>> What's that?
>> Finance.
>> Yes. Yes. So, I think going to the next
finance meeting um and and having that
conversation, it's prime time because
we're in budget season anyway. Quite
honestly, we'll have the discussion in
committee, work through the committee.
I'm happy to attend as a character
witness. Um and and letting it go
through the committee process. So,
that's I apologize that when I offered
that to you, I know I know you're a
go-getter. I didn't realize you were
going to literally do it that day. um
without me being able to talk to Alex,
Christine, or um or Nick who are on that
committee. Um so, so yeah, let's let's
go that route if that works for you.
>> Absolutely. I'll attend the next meeting
>> February 19th.
>> And uh thank you and um yeah, I
appreciate your time and and
consideration and I do, you know,
appreciate everything that the the
police department does and and all of
that. So looking forward to uh having
more discussions.
>> Sounds good. Thank you.
>> Can I I just want to add something. Uh,
you know, I appreciate you coming out
and your passion, you know, for um the
community and for all of us honestly.
And something that I and I was at that
meeting um something that most people
don't know um the public doesn't know is
um how many hours that the police
department spends, you know, and how
many manh hours that the average person
doesn't even realize. you know, I'm not
trying to substantiate or minimize the
amount of money that's paid to cover the
fees, but the amount of hours is like
immense. So, uh, aside from revenue,
it's just there's a lot of hours that go
into that. I don't think the background
checks and everything. I don't know the
average person realizes that. So, it's
just, um, the public should know that.
>> Yes. The I believe
>> aside from dollars amount, these guys
put a lot of time and effort into it.
>> Mhm. Yes. I believe is an average um
from what I'm seeing and hearing and
learning, it's roughly 20 minutes to a
half hour to do a back background check
on one individual.
>> So they use
>> again that fee is $150
for roughly that 100 that for that half
say a half hour worth worth of work. And
I'm not saying that our police officers
are worth it. So don't don't take me
wrong.
>> Yeah. No that way. But um
>> I don't think they think that Sandy
trusts me.
ask a question. Do other towns you're
proposing, they did away with it
completely? They cut it in half or they
went to 50. What did they do?
>> You can't you can't you can't change um
you can't change the fee because it's
statemandated. What towns uh across New
Jersey are starting to do recognizing
that um
it comes down to a fundamental argument,
but recognizing that it's an excessive
fee. Um because no matter how you cut
it, it is a very excessive fee. Um it's
an excessive fee. Therefore,
you have to by law take in the 150, send
X to the state, get X, the municipality
gets the rest. What municipalities are
are proposing is that that fee then gets
given back to the resident. That said,
what I will tell you, which was very
interesting because I've spoken to other
mayors that have and councils that have
passed it, it is actually it's not an
automatic either.
It It's not an automatic give back.
There's a lot more nuances to it um that
we can discuss in committee when it
comes up instead of doing it during
>> Yeah. No, I just I just didn't know what
the question I just asked a question and
talk.
>> Thank you.
>> Yes. Yes. And just so you know, there's
16 towns currently that have passed this
resolution um giving back the fee to the
applicant.
>> Thank you.
>> So
any questions? You guys know you all
have my number, my email. Please reach
out. I love the talk.
>> Thank you very much.
>> I almost had to hit you with the time
limit over there and I'm just teasing.
>> Hello, sir. Hi. Good evening. Uh my name
is Tony Rockhill. Uh I'm not from here.
Uh I'm from Beachwood, uh a little town
in, uh northern Ocean County. Uh I came
here to support Sandy and trying to get
you guys to work with us on this
resolution. Um you had it passed in my
town. Um and I know you want to go
through the committee now. Uh but there
were a couple of points some of you
brought up that I would like to address.
>> Sure.
First one is uh when you say there's a
cost uh to doing this
police department is kind of a net loss.
There is no profit. Everything the
police department does comes at a cost
to the to the entire
to the entire town.
And what else is a police department
charged for besides running background
checks uh you know for purchase permits
and carry permits? Nothing. That's it.
that's the one thing they charge for.
Um, and it's it's just not right. Um, so
I like to think, you know, those of you
on the finance committee to think about
that um, you know, when it's brought up.
Uh, you're asking about the towns that
uh, that have passed it and how much
they've given back. I actually have a
list I can leave with you.
>> That'd be excellent. Actually, details.
>> You can leave it right on that table
right there, sir.
>> Thank you. Tommy, can you grab it for
me, please? I think it was in that email
that Sandy sent to
>> it was, wasn't it, Sandy?
>> Yeah.
>> So, of those 16 towns, the last one came
about last night.
Um, I was there as well. When we walked
in the door, they planned on passing
this uh only doing a partial refund. Uh,
so the town gets the 150, they were
going to refund 120 and keep the $30.
uh by the end of the night after
speaking with them they decided
correct thing to do was to issue a full
refund and that's what they went ahead
and voted on.
>> So what I will tell you sir quite
honestly and Sandy I'm an open book you
and I I I have discussed that I won't
not make the police department whole. So
there there's a lot of conversations to
be had. Um so I but I see where you're
coming from you said not making the
police department whole. It's it's the
one thing. I mean, they don't have to go
and take a a police report for a
burglary and then go and investigate
that and then tell people, "Well, we
need $150
in order to do that investigation."
>> But to get the police report, you'd pay.
>> Correct, Captain?
>> Yes.
>> There's a fee, correct?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And and that fee is for what? Just
a little bit of paperwork,
>> correct?
>> Not $150.
>> I I have no idea, but there is a fee. So
if we were talking about uh fee is what
a couple bucks.
So
>> if we were talking about that that's
not $150. No you're preaching the choir
on that one. Trust me the finance
meeting. Can we just get a list of how
many we usually get on an average year?
But you know if it's a nominal amount of
money I I 100% agree we should rate it
in support of that. So, I just think
it's something we should look at if we
can get that number.
>> It's not Can I ask one more question on
it while you're up here?
>> Yeah. You seem like you're passionate
about this.
>> The reason you're asking for the refund
is because you think that it's deterring
people from getting it or you don't
think people should pay for it. What's
the reason?
I'm asking what your reasoning is.
>> Okay.
Um before the brewing decision
when there was uh a May issue uh for
carrier permits, the state didn't need
to issue these high fees uh in order to
keep people from getting carrier
permits. They can just turn around and
say, "No, you can't have them."
>> Now they have to issue them. So, it's
gone from about $57 for somebody to
obtain uh a firearm and a carry permit
to over $500 with the multiple steps
that you're aware of. Uh an FID is one
background check, a purchase permit is
another. A NYX check at the time of
purchase at the FFL is another. Uh
firearms, uh I'm sorry, fingerprint
fees, uh that are mandatory. You're not
going to the police department and
getting some done for free. you have to
go and pay for that.
>> Um, so to to answer that question, Alex,
really quick, so the argument was, and
again, I keep breaking my own rule by
going over this. So the the a lot of
towns when I spoke to mayors and stuff
like that, the argument is it's a
constitutional right. The United the New
Jersey Supreme Court and the United
States Supreme Court struck down New
Jerseys
restrictive carry permit rules because
New Jersey was one of the strictest in
the country. it was certain parts of it
was deemed unconstitutional. New Jersey
in a retaliatory action decided, "Okay,
we're being forced to do this legally.
We're going to just slap these crazy
fees on it." Um there's no
justifiability to the fees. So, um
advocates of the Second Amendment, the
Constitution, things like that, because
it's not a it's not even actually a red
and blue issue. Um
that that's the ar that's the argument
at play about returning these fees.
>> Yeah cuz when I looked at it you know
some are refunding partial it looks like
some doing 100 some doing 125 someone
doing 100. So that's why I was just
trying to figure out like what they were
actually looking for. But I'll see what
you Sandy
come to the next finance meeting. No
problem.
Thank you.
>> Thank you. Appreciate you coming and
supporting Sandy. She's a great resident
of our city.
>> She is. Anybody
else in the public like to speak?
>> This one.
>> Gotcha.
>> Good evening, sir.
>> Just name and address, please.
>> A Florence, Jackson Township, New
Jersey. I managed the hotel days in on
Boulevard.
And we're running for a couple years.
And the city pass ordinance recently
only 14 days per resident. After that,
we have to res and move on. There's a
lot of people that stay in our hotel
that for some reason or another they
don't own an apartment either. They're
they qualify for credit or they're um
they don't want to pay utilities, they
just want to take care of there. I
understand the reason of the ordinance.
You don't want any people um just
passing through and not staying here
currently, but these people have jobs
whether they're working local and they
just want a place to stay. So I would
like to ask for a exclusionary process
for a hotel that if someone has a job
and is paying taxes and they're out,
they just want to live there and that
might be kids getting into the school
system that will be allowed to get a
waiver on people that actually pay
taxes, not just hanging out at vagrants
and just need a place to stay.
>> How would they pay taxes?
>> You wouldn't. They wouldn't be paying
taxes cuz they're paying the train that
you are as the hotel operator hotel.
>> I'm saying they're taxpayers. They're
not they don't they're not um people
without jobs. to have jobs, whether
they're working locally or wherever,
they they just don't have money to buy a
house or rent. They just want a place
local and they've asked us, well,
they're not leaving the town. They're
going from the days in to the the other
hotels back and forth and playing the
game. It's not like they're leaving
town. They're just being uprooted and
moving from the days in to let's say
Howard Johnson's Howard Johnson going to
the Holiday in and other independent
hotels. So, as far as the county goes,
these people are not really leaving Eps
Township. you're staying in the
township. I'm proposing if someone uh
not to abolish the whole rule cuz I
understand where it's coming from, but
I'm opposing that if someone is a so to
say a stable person, you sees a local
person and we have a couple people that
are want to stay by us. They're doing
contracting Atlantic City and they're
there for 2 months at a time and they
need workforce housing and they say, "We
would like to stay by you cuz we're
doing plumbing job or construction job
in Atlantic City." But then they say, we
tell them after 14 days you got to evict
themselves. You know, it's very
uncomfortable for them to keep moving
from one hotel to the next hotel.
They're here for work for housing. They
have three months at a time. So granted,
a waiver should be granted. I'm
requesting lightly from the township
that if someone is here for workforce
housing or they have regular job and I
understand the ordinance when I spoke to
his name, he told me well they're
protecting the the hotel owners because
after 28 days you become a resident of
the city, you can't evict them. I
understand that and that's the
responsibility on the home on the hotel
owner that you can't evict somebody
after 28 days be hotel
but on the request of a lot of residents
in the hotel and they just didn't want
to put their name down for whatever
reason they asked me to represent them
to say hey listen can we get a waiver to
stay at your hotel we like it it's a big
room it's safe it's clean we got parking
we just want to stay we don't want to
keep moving from this hotel 2 weeks
later you got a different hotel and then
back and forth the issue of of moving
people out of hotel it's not getting
resolved by 14 days when there's so many
different hotels on Chica Boulevard that
they can go from one hotel to the next
hotel. So I'm that's what I'm
requesting.
>> Mr. President, go ahead.
>> So
as you may or may not be aware and this
is not I don't know the days in
business.
We have been here and now at the city of
Abseen have been getting other counties
uh parole boards putting
their people experiencing homelessness,
violent paroleies, sex offenders in all
of our hotels. The issue with the
ordinance and I I believe you should
consider and we can ask our lawyer about
the exclusionary thing for work and work
alone. you have some sort of proof that
you're here working in the city for 3
months, that's all well and good. The
issue becomes enforcability in terms of
our police department. The ordinance
seems strict, but for background
knowledge, it was about 3 years ago. We
passed the 28 day length of stay
ordinance and it and believe me it was
not the days in but there were other
>> bad competition what they do and you
know I'm running a very
>> correct and unfortunately it was the the
bad seeds that have
>> undesirable
>> flagrantly flagrantly violated our 28day
ordinance. So, we had to take action
because we have social services putting
children, placing children in hotels
that they don't realize that two rooms
away is probably a tier three sex
offender because we know they're getting
placed there. We know families are being
placed in the motel and they're being
placed there long term and it's not safe
for the families and for the people who
actually need help to be living in
motel. That's the reasoning behind the
the let's I want to say strict or
severiness of the ordinance. No, no one
up here made the decision lightly to to
make the change. Again, um you know, we
went back and forth for quite some time.
We looked at a lot of the numbers from
the police department and and that's why
we're here.
>> That being said, I am happy to work with
>> Hey, can we ask a can I ask a quick
question while we're doing this? How
many people do you think in the hotel
are here because there are like
electrician, plumbers working these
casinos? I mean, you have a I'm guessing
the the holiday and I mean it's days in
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, how many rooms?
>> It's a hard question to answer cuz a lot
of people have a lot of domestic issues.
So, they just need a place to, you know,
they're having issues at home, you know,
with their spouse or kids and they just
want a place to buzz off, you know, down
for two weeks. But there's a lot I would
say there's about at any given time
there's between 20 to 40 people that for
whatever reason we have someone there
that's scared to stay in an apartment.
They're scared of tenants. They're
scared of a landlord. They have mental
issues so they want to stay in the hotel
for they're willing. They have a job.
They just for whatever reason they had
some bad experience growing up of being
evicted. So they're scared of going
apartment but they had to hold on a
regular job. is workforce housing are
saying and there's many people for
whatever reason that they their credit
is so bad when they apply for a rental
house they're getting turned down and
then there's some people that
middle-aged they want to live alone they
don't want a cable bill they don't want
a water bill they don't want any bills
they want a Wi-Fi bill they just want
one bill give them per night and they
know they pay it for they you know
they're holding regular jobs and um
they're requesting they just like can't
you stay us a couple weeks more can't
you I'm like no we ain't No,
>> it doesn't sound like those people are
going to want to leave after a couple
weeks more. That's the issue.
>> And and then you're not a transient
occupant anymore. You're a resident.
>> Correct.
Because of 28 days. I'm looking forward
just to get 28 days up in a couple weeks
cuz this is a lot of people like that.
And then we can tell move out for a week
or two and figure out your own life.
Come back and come revisit us. and just
14 days, especially for contractors and
people that have jobs, they they're like
they want a, you know, a stable place to
stay and it doesn't do us any good by
having undesirable hotel because like I
saying, it doesn't we want to run a, you
know, a good ship. Um, I just don't
understand as as a business owner cuz I
I work in hospitality. There are many
other hotels. So when has an ordinance
of 14 days, they're they're they're
playing the system like everyone else
is. I'm not trying to, you know,
>> we're not we're not a focus to that.
>> Yeah, we see the same customers.
>> I I think part of it is we you won't
have a tenant that is occupying the room
and basically making it an apartment. I
mean, we've been in the fire department.
I've been in hotel rooms before this
ordinance was passed that it becomes
hoarder conditions. So, with us having
to have people move along every 14 days,
it does not it deters them from doing
that as well. So,
>> I I understand that. I understand the
reason for the law. It's not like I
don't I'm I'm very aware of all the
issues that come up and I respect the
township. They want to keep it clean.
They want to keep it safe. They don't
want people moving on. It's transient.
It's not it's not it's it's a transient
place. It's not full-time multi-unit.
That's different. The ball game. It's a
count. But for someone who's who's a
regular person and for whatever reason
can't afford it. I was just looking some
type of waiver on that on on a specific
case case by case. Listen, here's a guy.
He has he's working over here. He's
working here.
>> I think it's discriminatory on its face.
I I think that creates a problem.
Correct.
>> I mean,
>> okay.
>> You're essentially just trying to say if
you're employed, you can stay longer,
but if you're not, you're out at 14
days, right? That that's a distinction
we're drawing.
>> Why? Why is that discriminatory? We're
proving proof of funds,
not somebody else. That's an actual
>> Yeah, it's that that's completely We if
we even tried to do that, it would get
We've already been challenged on this,
right? We're aware of that. It would get
worse if we tried to do that. I promise
you that. So if you have people in that
motel who are experiencing are there
because they're experiencing
homelessness or they're there because
they have a mental illness and we do
have them reach out to us. We have a
>> that's not why he's here. I know just
while we stay we have I work with the
county for veterans affairs and mental
home and just people facing it then
working with a different county um
instead of staying in the police
department and putting them up stay by
us for a night if they have have the
best dispute stay in the hotel instead
of staying in the in the police station
and taking jail stay two days cool down
whatever happened at home you know stand
back instead of getting the police
involved and they responded very much to
us because we want to work with the
community we obviously we're here to
help the community and work with the
community and we provide a service for
people that are working in the area.
They have a place to stay whether
they're salespeople or or local worker
housing or small construction jobs.
That's what it's based on. Obviously,
the tourist business from Atlantic City
in the summertime. But that's that's
that's where I'm coming from is actually
some a lot of people have asked the
general manager and got the word to
myself is we can have some type of
waiver on someone like that.
>> We will discuss it at our our next code
enforcement meeting. We'll bring it up.
But
>> can I just ask you cuz in the fire
department I said what would be our
alternative to make it safer that would
apply to the board that would make it
>> those rooms are not built or code or
built to code for long-term housing. So
there's there's no way around it
unfortunately. They're made for
transient occupancy.
>> Correct. I'm well aware of that. But I'm
just looking for a way to uh make it
easier for the board to say listen
transients know someone who's workforce
housing or someone who's working locally
but can't afford or doesn't have a
credit check to get an apartment. I
think like our solicitor said it would
be, you know, discriminatory if we did
went that route and allowed it for one
and not the other. So,
>> especially the credit people like there
there's services around here we can
connect them with to get them help from
the the state and federal government to
help pay.
>> But Nick, you'll finish this
conversation.
>> We'll finish it.
>> They have the money cuz they have jobs.
We're not It's not a money. It's just a
matter of they don't have the credit for
whatever reason. The past years, they
just can't. No one's want to rent them
anymore.
>> Yeah. I do suggest continuing the
conversation through code enforcement.
Sure. Cuz that's where the ordinance
went through was code code. Excuse me.
Sorry, sir. Code enforcement.
>> Thank you.
>> Can I Can I have your email later?
>> Yes, it's on our website. If you go to
appj.org, our next meeting is February
17th at 4:00.
>> I'm saying for code enforcement to reach
out to you directly.
>> Yeah, my my email is lower. I can write
it down for you when we're done this
meeting if you like.
>> Thank Thank you, sir. Thank you. Would
anybody else from the public like to
speak?
>> How do I know?
>> It's been a long while.
>> Okay. Are you getting me back?
>> No. Greg, 65 Yarmmouth Avenue. I I had
no intention of speaking, but just with
your top
business owners who are affected by
this, but it is not the city's job to
alleviate um housing crisis issues by
turning a business that is designed for
vacationing and transient residents into
a housing solution. Um, I mean that is
the cause of this problem. Um, so I
would, you know, strongly caution
council not to lighten up the work
they've done to try to address this
issue and obviously Absin faces a much
stronger concern with this than the rest
of the country given the demographic
issues and we know as someone who has
volunteered at the Atlantic City Rescue
Mission, people being sent from all over
the state down here, um, we have to be
extra vigilant. So, and while I
certainly sympathize with the
predicament this business owner and
other business owners are in, um it is
bad for the city to take the foot off
the pedal on trying to remedy this
problem. Um and I I would again urge
council and the city to continue to do
its diligence to try to fix this. So,
>> thank you, sir.
>> Thank you.
>> Would anybody else from the public like
to speak?
>> Name and address, please. You have
exactly 3 minutes. I'm starting the
timer now
>> with the Evans 610 Southshore Road.
>> Thank you, sir.
>> So, my neighbors came to me. I live over
on the other side of the pike, as you
know, Southshore Road. The streets are
all dead end down there. And with the
snowstorm, they can only plow down the
middle, which plows everybody in.
They're asking that maybe we could put
up a sign like they do in other towns
that says on snow covered roads, you
can't park on this side of the street.
So, that it's one side of the street. So
they'll be able to go down and back and
make two lanes and just unfortunately
the one side would not be plowed because
it is a problem over there where right
now it's they literally went straight
down the street and plowed everybody in
and a lot of those houses don't have
driveways where they can get their car
off the street. So my neighbor asked
that I could he could not be here um in
order to say that. So, it's just
something that maybe we can consider
that it would just be a sign that would
be just one side of the street. They do
it like in all the other towns. Atlantic
City, I've seen it. Benter, I've seen it
where, you know, snow covered roads,
please don't park on this side of the
street.
>> Thank you. Um, I do suggest uh not you,
but your neighbor following up with
public works,
public works or code enforcement.
>> Would assignment that actually be
enforceable? I mean,
>> I thought it would be code enforcement.
exist.
I was only teasing. Okay, thank you.
We'll discuss that.
>> Yeah, we'll figure it out. I was only
teasing. I might I might have to reclose
myself because I'm in the same boat.
>> OKAY.
>> Would anybody else uh from the public
like to speak tonight?
>> May I hear a motion to close this
meeting to the public?
>> Motion. Second.
>> All in favor?
>> Opposed? May I hear a motion to adjourn
this meeting?
>> Motion second.
>> All in favor?
>> I opposed. Meeting adjourned. Thank you
everyone for coming tonight.