Public Meeting of Egg Harbor Township Committee 03/18/26

Scheduled meeting of the I Carver
Township Committee is being requested
for topics that may properly be
discussed in closed session pursuant to
the open public meetings act.
Interruptions
may occur. This meeting will be
televised on EHTV channel 97 and posted
on the township's website. Pursuant to
Egg Harbor Township Code, public comment
is subject to established rules of
procedure, including a fivem minute time
limit, recognition by the mayor, and
standards after quorum. Comments shall
be directed to the governing body. Thank
you.
>> Thank you. Could everybody please stand
for the pledge of allegiance?
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for it stands, one nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all
people.
>> We have a roll call, please.
>> Here, Paul,
>> William,
>> here.
>> Ellis and Laura,
>> I am here.
>> Well, we're starting the meeting the way
I always like to start him with a
presentation. Re uh recognizing National
Public Safety Telecommunicator Week,
which is April 12th through April 18th.
We want to do it early because we want
to give you guys as much recognition as
humanly possible and also um we're going
to get some information about kind of
the support your telecommunicator out
there. So come on down everybody.
honesty
and our EMS are the ones yet deal with
you in addition to public every day and
you are the voice
that people hear most of that you're
here. We want to recognize that and just
thank you for all the incredible service
Just want to thank each and every one of
you.
>> Township of a harbor proclamation
recognizing National Public Safety
Telecommunicators Week, April 12th
through 18th, 2026.
Whereas emergencies requiring police,
fire or emergency medical services can
occur at any time. And whereas the
prompt response of police officers,
firefighters, and paramedics is critical
to the protection of life and the
preservation of property. And whereas
the safety of our first responders
depends heavily on the quality and
accuracy of information provided by
citizens to the Egg Harbor Township
Emergency Communication Center. And
whereas public safety telecommunicators
are the first and most critical point of
contact for our citizens in times of
emergency. And whereas public safety
telecommunicators serve as a vital link
between the community and emergency
responders by monitoring field
activities, providing essential
information, and ensuring the safety of
our police officers, firefighters, and
paramedics. And whereas the public
safety, telecommunicators of a harbor
township have made significant
contributions to the apprehension of
criminals, suppression of fires, and
treatment of patients. And whereas each
dispatcher has consistently demonstrated
compassion, understanding, and
professionalism in the performance of
their duties throughout the past year.
Now therefore, be it proclaimed by the
mayor and township committee of the
townships of Egg Harbor, County of
Atlantic, and state of New Jersey that
the week of April 12th through April
18th, 2026 is hereby recognized as
National Public Safety Telecommunicators
Week in the Township of Egg Harbor in
honor of the dedicated men and women
whose diligence and professionalism
helped to keep our community safe.
CONGRATULATIONS,
CAPTAIN KEEN WHO IS an overseas comm
you we all we've talked about this for
our telecommunicators
I want to say underappreciated, but they
don't get the recognition that they
regularly deserve. Um, you know, I I was
thinking about how they're like the home
played umpire in baseball. Everything
goes through the home plate umpire.
Russ call it goes through dispatch. Fire
dispatch, it goes through dispatch and
vice versa. When you're done with the
call, it goes through dispatch. So I
mean they are pretty much the backbone
of your organization when it comes to
our first responder services
our public works and um are very much
appreciated. I think uh we've tried to
ensure or change that a few years ago.
Uh, one of the things, you know,
sometimes in two tra,
you know, sitting just about chair
real fast, um, how, you know, maybe
their attitudes
call because maybe they just got maybe
they just got off doing uh CPR over the
phone because people don't realize that
they're not the ones out there doing the
actual compressions, but guess what?
They're relaying how to do CPR to
someone that's never done it before. And
can you imagine stress? That's what
these are doing. And really getting off
that call, what do you think they're
doing? Are they going being able to go
have a breather and
that and get their spirit back? No,
you're on to the next call for
something, a traffic crash or a fire.
How about give our dispatchers a little
bit of a break, you know, when maybe
they can get
not the service, but maybe they weren't
as pleasant as you expected them. They
they're dealing with a lot,
but I think the world of them and um and
this is a
stars because that's what they deserve.
>> How they get treated?
>> So it was last it was last year the idea
came up and it wasn't my idea.
So adopt a dispatcher. So for that week
until the communications week, we have
people in the community, whether or not
they're business owners or
coffee, whatever. So we've got already a
big um we put it out already on social
media and we've got a huge response.
I'm gonna echo what?
>> Come on, sir.
>> Um, I'm going to echo what she's trying
to say. Over the years, I've known this
a long time. And over the years, we've
gotten a lot of personal relationships
with these dispatchers. I'm looking at
two of them right now that I've known my
entire careers in the fire service.
um they are definitely the ones on
yours. They're the ones taking that 911
call. They're the ones who are dealing
with that panicked um homeowner whether
it be on a medical side or whether it be
on side or even a fire where that person
is in their is having their worst day
probably of their life possibly. And
these dispatchers are the ones who are
taking that call. They're dealing with
these people before the police officers
and the firefighters and EMS get there.
So, um, you know, when we get there and
we're able to show face and and and talk
to people, it's a little different.
They're doing they're trying to do this
over a telephone. So, I mean, that takes
a lot. Um, it takes a lot of skill. It
takes a lot of talent and it takes a lot
of patience to deal with. So, on behalf
of the fire department, and I could
probably speak, I would I would say
Chief Banner and I would,
we're completely grateful for everything
you guys do. um keep up to go to work
and you know we have your back. You know
I have your back anyway. You know
there's always those there's always
going to be
you guys do a great job. You're in a lot
of stress up there and you know and we
know it. So
>> that's new
Lynwood
and
they're not it's not just one town
they're focused on which other Now
they're um maybe spoiled in that way. Um
there are again they might get off that
call for doing CPR. You know I'm sitting
here talking I realize I use my hands a
lot.
Um
but no so they're earning their keep by
having a shared service dispatch and
know that it's a stressful environment.
Yours your environment as well.
as you deserve to be treated during all
communications.
Now real quick,
I was a police officer in LA city
communication called me and I remember
they launched. Unlike custom
police officers
calling in, I'd hang up.
Let me just add it. In 1973, I became a
police officer. And as a junior guy,
guess what you got stuck doing? Playing
dispatch. And it's a tough job. Don't
let anybody kid you. In those days, we
had to ring the siren. Okay? We had four
incoming lines and they all end up
together. You knew you had to get your
feet down off the desk, sit there and
start typing on the IBM typewriter. So I
know what you do. I listen to you. And
now they they used to say they call him
on the air, he never answered. So I used
to answer
his horse.
>> He would turn the light on.
>> IBM on a roller.
>> Yeah. So I can see that. Yeah. I get a
picture of our
>> picture.
Trying to get the ducky to tuck it in.
>> Leave him out.
>> Okay.
>> All right, guys. Does he really call you
guys? Thank you guys.
>> Don't hang up on the 5200.
>> Yeah.
Hang up. Don't say there must be a
problem with the line. Sorry.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Thank you guys.
Thank you for absolutely
everything you do.
>> You're welcome.
>> They call me first.
>> Got a new name there.
>> Oh, you got a new person on board.
>> Check it out.
>> They named a river after you, didn't
they?
>> Yeah.
All righty.
They truly are amazing people. They
really are.
>> All right. Moving forward,
we have ordinance number eight for
public hearing. Mr. Freriedman.
>> Thank you, mayor. Ordinance number eight
is an ordinance repealing chapter 6,
article 17, municipal court of the code
of the town of Bay Harbor. The purpose
of this ordinance is to repeal uh
article 17 of chapter 6 to align with
the code with prior amendments. Thank
you.
>> All right. Thank you. Is there anyone in
the audience that would like to address
the uh governing body on ordinance
number eight?
Seeing none, I have a motion to close
the public portion.
>> Make a motion. Second.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Yes.
Yes.
>> Yes. Can I have a motion to adopt
ordinance number eight?
>> Motion second.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Yes.
We have no ordinance for
introduction. Correct.
>> Good.
>> Sweet.
>> Yeah. Next meeting is going to be bad.
We have our resolution consent calendars
number 131 through 134. This is crazy.
Can I have if anybody has any questions,
can we do this first? If not, can I have
a motion?
>> Make a motion.
>> Second.
>> Uh, roll call, please.
>> Yes.
>> Alice,
>> yes. Resolution 135 is authorizing
payment of all bills. Can I have a
motion to keep the lights on?
>> And have a second.
>> Second.
>> Thank you. Roll call, please.
>> Yes.
Yes. Can I have a motion to approve
the township committee meeting minutes
of March 4th, 2026?
>> Make a motion. A second.
>> All in favor?
>> I.
>> Can I have a motion to approve the
departmental reports for the month of
February 2026?
>> Motion.
>> Have a second.
>> Second.
>> Thank you. All in favor?
>> I.
>> This is going to be one of the shortest
meetings we've had in a long time.
>> I shouldn't say that, but I just jinxed
it. I'm sorry. I am sorry everybody. Um,
at least from our side of it. Um, I'll
rephrase it. Uh, do we have anyone in
the public that would like to address
the governing body on anything
whatsoever? Mrs. Justice, come on down.
>> All time, Mrs. Justice.
>> I do know.
>> All right.
>> Ivans Avenue resident Cindy Justice.
Somebody hit the timer because I have a
a pattern of just talking.
>> I have it. It's right here. Okay. You
want to do this? I'll set it for you.
>> Sounds good. Um, first I want to thank
you for hearing what I'm about to say.
It ain't going to be easy for me or for
you. I am a resident, have been for 30
plus years. I don't feel as if I'm being
heard. I've been to a number of these
meetings, both committee meetings and
planning board meetings since December.
couple of which didn't even happen. I
showed up and they they didn't happen.
I know I don't have to go into detail
for y'all. This is primarily about the
proposal. It's called PB2025-016.
It's to put until Monday it was going to
put 64 houses on West Jersey. Now it's
reduced to 54 houses.
But I tell you that that planning board
meeting was less than if I had to give
it a grade, it'd be a D or below.
Speaking of grades, we talked about
times to wait at intersections. What's
acceptable traffic wise? This proposal
admittedly by the person who presented
it said it's going to be a CD or E
particular times. Who in this room,
y'all are included, you can raise your
hand if you want to wait. CD or E length
of times to get anywhere.
Who in this room wants to live
surrounded by electricity?
I have electricity
on both sides of Ivan's Avenue. I'm a
dead end street. I am I am a special
resident. Not me personally, but Ivans
Avenue has special challenges. Really
special challenges. Really special soil.
I have a box here to show you how
special it is. But nobody wants to hear
me. That's what I feel like. Nobody
wants to hear me. They know I'm speaking
truth. The man over there that rep I'm
sorry I'm not pointing to anybody here,
but he was in that seat over there when
I was doing the presentation I was
allowed to do.
He said, "Well, what you're talking
about happened 30 years ago." Well, it's
still happening. I'm talking about a
water table that's as high as it
possibly can be and it's ruining my
home. It has ruined many parts of my
health. Not that I don't believe in
healing cuz I do. I serve a great and
mighty God and I believe that I am going
to be okay. I'm going to continue to be
able to function in life. But it's been
a hard road. I dug out by hand as a
single mother a ditch at the end of my
property so the water would get out from
under a brand newly built house. No,
actually, let me change that. I did that
first before the house was erected. Then
I got the under the house swimming pool
once I divorced. I'm shaking. I just got
kicked. I I you know said, "Okay, I'm
going to fix this. I got to get rid of
this water. It's not going to go away. I
have to direct and pump it out." Which I
did. Then we put another addition on the
house. I had to do it on the second
crawl space. Same thing. Water's
everywhere down there. The water or the
soil content is not made to have it's
made to have trees around it. It was
designed to have trees. Our forefathers
knew it was wet back there. That's how
come Ivan's got to be a dead end.
There's so many streets below it that
got vacated because it's too wet. Main
Street doesn't go through because it's
too wet.
Uh, speaking of vacated, those little
green or gray boxes that all say
exempted on them, found out at that
planning board thing, one of those
little gray areas that was on West
Jersey, lot 8 is now part of this guy's
development,
which to me means, cuz I've already
submitted an open request for that, and
I was told that was consolidated
with lot six in 22, but now it's the the
Housing lots are called four dot 5, four
dot candy 6, four dot four dot the lot
four is the one furthest to the west
from this proposal
and six was furthest to the east. It
would have been right beside it. So I
don't know what that was about how that
got to be. I was told just look it up in
in the Atlantic County records which I
have. The deed's not there. I think that
means it was a cash sale because I know
my son's deed isn't there either. And
that was a sheriff sale. So, you know,
there's just so much going on here that
really needs to be considered before
this thing gets that close to approval.
Thank God. Wherever he's not here, our
solicitor, I don't know his name, John.
He's so smart. He told he told the
planning board chairman, he goes, "If
you give any kind of conditional
approval here, you're locking yourself
in."
And they hadn't even presented the real
design. They they had to. The pilot got
to cut this down in size or you're going
to have to pay some piling credits. And
they didn't want to do that. I don't
blame them. What are they? 50 grand a
pop. 50 100 grand. I don't know what it
is. But they're just doing this on the
fly. And I feel like in the planning
board meeting, it's a lot of let's make
a deal. Let's make a deal. You don't
have to. We can wave your ecological
study. We can we can wave your cultural
history. There's a lot of history on
Ivans Avenue. It was the first street
started that in Tmont, I believe. So
that bike path that is on the other side
of West Jersey in between Ria and West
Jersey was the railroad and it came down
from Philadelphia took people into
Atlantic City and there was a station
right there. There was a McKe city
station. There was a Carter station.
>> You know that the just so you know the
planning board hearing is not done on
that project.
>> I know they're not but it's a matter
it's I got two weeks. I got two weeks to
save my life here cuz I'm talking my
life, my quality of life. I have been
working on my property since I bought
the property because of water.
Because of water. We, you know, we talk.
You got to see this. This we at least
want to see this cuz you yourself said
you got wisteria. That's what my
wisteria look like.
All over all over my entire backyard. I
have to rake all well not the entire
2.16 acres but I have to rake the leaves
up to make sure I can see where my
enemies are at because I don't want them
to come back and they just come back.
Look at this crap. Nobody I'm sorry.
Look at this stuff. Nobody can can fix
this either because nobody has this kind
of unique situation. Again, I mentioned
before this stuff is following our meal
branch, the Black Moon branch, all over
to the Cedar Branch, Maple Run, whatever
it's called, over to the Paton Creek.
This was mysterious everywhere. It's up
above the Black Horse Pike, and I and I
have names and and lot numbers. I think
they should be held accountable for this
stuff. This is invasive. This is bam for
sale now and it's eating it's eating
what used to be beautiful in Agar
Township.
I I I don't have no other I I mean
really truly I don't want to pursue
anything other than this. I really don't
want to. But if I get back into the
corner I can't live the way that I'm
going to have to live if that place gets
approved.
Well, we'll have the come back to the
next planning board meeting and if the
date is changed, we will let you know
for sure. And the people on Ivans
Avenue. Okay.
>> There's got to have the typographical.
>> We We got to make sure. No, I understand
that. But our engineer confirms that
you're showing us and I believe it.
Wasn't I out of your house before?
>> I don't know if you were. I know.
>> Well, when you had the water and you
couldn't
here's the thing. There is an issue with
water out there. It runs over to Bridge
Mill Road supposed to be built.
>> So we got to make sure that it's not
being shipped your way because of this
development number one. And maybe number
two is the development can remediate
your problem by getting the water to run
somewhere else.
>> I disrespectfully God put it there.
>> I know it. God put it there. Okay. So,
we got a real problem and a developer
has to realize that the retention pond
that he thinks is going to work may hurt
you.
>> But he just he he's arguing.
>> I got it. I got it. I was there. I spent
the four hours. I was there. So, I know.
>> I mean, I was there.
>> Okay. And and there was a young man, I
won't call him out by name. We can't
allow four inlets on.
>> We can't do it. It's a busy highway.
>> Yes. I need
>> it's a road used to divert traffic off
the black because it runs paralle well.
And I always use this excuse. Cars are
mice. They find their way. If they can
do better on West Jersey, they're going
to use it, not the Pike. So, we know
this. And when you have a traffic guy
give you the ABC like you referenced it,
that's that's a judgment call. It's not
firm. It's not like 2 plus two is four.
It's 2 plus two maybe three or four or
five. So, we got it. and keep coming
with your friends and your n your people
out there and we will hopefully get the
right answer if they pursue their
development
>> and we'll make sure that our engineers
give us complete separate information.
>> You need to know the typographical
layout of the water is very low
>> and it changes over time.
>> I got it. You bet you
>> it changes.
>> I know it does. It's only getting lower
because it gets plugged up.
>> Yeah. But thank you for mentioning that
four intersection thing. I was thinking
>> too, but that was what I was going to
say. We don't need
>> my husband. My husband brought that
forward.
>> He was right over there smiling. I show
>> I don't agree with the fireman all the
time, but he was right on the mountain.
>> Well, the fireman or the the snowplow
people here. This is what I want to say.
>> What I'm saying is that's the first
>> they were I've been here for a number of
times that they were recognizing the
water. We don't want him to create
water. It hurts you.
>> Well, that's part of the problem, but I
don't want children killed. And that's
what could happen at those four
intersections. Think of And now I'm
going to put on my my taxpayer hat.
Okay. What are we as a township going to
do when the first fatality happens
because of those four intersections? As
one gentleman pointed out, that's going
to be six intersections
between English Creek Road and Fernwood
Avenue, right,
>> for buses to be stopped at in the
morning. the man. Some people that live
on my street have have trailers. They
try to pull behind them. They can't make
a right or left-hand turn and they'll
sit there forever. But it's only a
matter of time till a child gets killed.
Then who are they going to come to? Cuz
if I mean, I don't even know if the
planning board things are recorded. And
I want to be on the record for this
because I'm saying that could happen.
>> That could happen.
>> Just so you know, they are recorded.
>> So anything that you've said at the
planning board has been recorded. Well,
I asked him for an audio file and I
haven't got that yet because if I I
don't even know. That was a long
meeting, too. So,
>> it was it was very long.
>> But I I don't even know usually what I
say when I get up here. So, I have to
watch a tape to even say, "Well, did I
say it there? Did I say it whenever?"
You've been pretty consistent since the
first time that you came before us. And
I know with the planning board the other
night, you touched on an awful lot of
things. The issue, as Paul stated, is
the water on Ivans Avenue. And I
remember you and I had talked prior in
regards to the year we had 62 in of rain
and how bad it was.
>> And that's a problem when you're that
low.
>> It is.
>> Other people on the problems too,
correct?
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Everybody south everybody
south of the There's 11 of our homes
down there that have to have those
blinder pumps that he's proposing and
everybody has that. The other thing too
is as a taxpayer I want to say where I
see lawsuits coming our way
that it has to be young families. Well,
let me just back up a second because the
chairman of the planning board even
brought this forward. He goes because
some some resident said, "What about the
power lines? They're health hazards."
And he's like, "Well, I can't tell
people where to buy a house." And I'm
like, "Well, internally I'm thinking,
who do you think's going to buy those
homes? The people that want a home that
want to start a family? You can't afford
a lot. So, it's going to be reduced
because I'm living underneath the power
lines. Well, how long's it going to take
for them to say, "Knock knocked
Township. My baby's got brain cancer." I
mean, that stuff's for real. Those EMF
things. And if people if if anybody
thinking about buying a house there
wants to know whether or not it's a
great place to live, it's like Casper
the Friendly Ghost is having a party
when the wind blows and those high the
high tension lines are going.
I mean, it's ridiculous. There's just no
reason to build there.
>> Bring this back to the planning board,
okay? And we will verify because that's
where this is right now.
>> Mayor, just tell me what to bring
because everything right now, the
paperwork you brought, the one big board
that you brought was very good because
it showed the low end of Ivans Avenue.
>> The rest a lot of the old a lot of the
older documentation isn't relevant to
the hearing. So, it has to be things
that are relevant to the hearing. That's
why Mr. Rididgeway took all the
information from you and started to go
through it. But he didn't all that
happened. They took a picture of that of
that map. That was it. We he didn't get
any of it.
>> I'll tell you honestly, I have a call
into our planners office. I've asked for
an audience with the planner because I
kept hearing that too. Well, our
planners looked at this and it's going
to drain. Okay. I'm like, I can't
believe that because that planner will
remain nameless. Me and him sat at a
table back in the 90s trying to scheme
up a plan to get this the sewer service
down to Ivans Avenue
because I could not flush and I have
pictures in here where I can't picture
the water there is so low that
>> or so high I should say water is so high
>> that it's causing problem for everyone
down in that area.
>> It will be and really back the rules we
have today that area never would have
been developed. I know that I and that's
the problem. It's an area that is so low
>> and the water table is so high
>> today, mayor. Why can't that guy just
take that as our answer? And why can't
we all look at that that section that I
read? Our code 94-41
says this stuff should be considered
what about whether it's good for the
community. It's not good for our
community. I've talked to every single
one of those houses on Tmont Avenue and
the ones that are further south are
getting water in their basement today
already.
This bunch of BS he's already saying is
going to go their direction is just
going to increase that happening. There
are basements in those homes. I mean
that's why just so you know and that's
why we have these kind of hearings at
the planning board. This is to break all
of this information out and there's a
lot of professionals in that room and
then everybody sitting up there on the
das has not even had an opportunity to
weigh in yet. So let's let's just see
what happens and and I can't promise you
one thing or another because the end of
the day
>> this is somebody who has property and
wants to develop it and it's one what
they want to do is allowed in that area
and they're not asking for a single
variance. So that means it's but we said
the other night a buy right application.
Yeah. I don't quite understand that, but
they're asking for waiverss. And I do
believe I as I offered a solution on the
planning board evening, I said we
township need to buy that back from him
and say, "Bye-bye.
Go back to Big E Little Harbor." I did a
lot of digging yesterday. There's a
number of mortgages on those properties.
I think he'd be probably happy to give
them up,
go somewhere else. I'm telling you, it
cost us under 500. And I don't know if
you remember a couple times back when
ACUA was standing here giving their
presentation and they were talking about
their money and they'd say, "Well, it'd
be better, but every year we have to pay
one and a half million to the residents
who brought suit." Well, why don't we
forgo that because that's the kind of
stuff we're looking at. I think if it's
not going to be a person getting killed
or being radiated to death or maybe
somebody on Ivans Avenue just saying,
"Look, I you know, this ain't right."
Good. Bring all this back to the
planning board. Okay. I'll be back.
>> Good. I promise.
>> And if anything changes, we will make
sure that you know everybody on Ians
Avenue knows.
>> I'm just afraid it's going to happen.
These are going to get that conditional
da and it just cuz it's not like we have
a verbal exchange during that. I really
I sincerely
sincerely appreciate this verbal
interaction. I thank you so much for
hearing me. I'm sorry I use the BS and
you know those kind of words but
>> you're upset and just
>> I am I am I can't even tell you how
upset I am.
>> It's just I mean I am a senior citizen.
Don't so many people on our our street
are senior citizens. I got a seven in my
next birthday. You know what I'm saying?
I want to enjoy my life on my in my
house. I don't want to hear beep beep
beep beep when they're pushing their
dirt around. I just don't. And I I I
don't think y'all would either. Not that
you personally have the power to do
this, but somebody somewhere, we got to
just make this a safe place again.
>> Make sure you're at that meeting. Okay.
>> I will be here. All right. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Can we help you with that pack that box?
>> I really get it. Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Anybody else want to address the
governing body?
>> Mr. Brank, come on down.
I'll leave you myself.
Okay, if I might end up
>> you have an extra one for the clerk for
the record. If not, I will I will if you
don't, I'll give her one.
Good evening. My name is Dominic Branka.
I live at 23 Evergreen Avenue right here
in Egar Township. Um I'm here for a
resolution that myself and a couple
advocates would like to propose. Um, I
did send this resolution electronically
a few weeks ago and I want to kind of
get to where where we got to with this
resolution. So, I don't know if
anybody's aware, but in 2022, we had a
big decision come down. We like to call
it in the game the brewing decision. And
that was in 22. that established that
the Second Amendment protects an
individual's right to carry guns in
public for self-defense, invalidating
states like New Jerseyies requiring
proper cause for concealed carry. Gun
regulations must be consistent with
historical tradition of firearm
regulation. That's a huge thing with
firearm laws. We have to go back to
historical almost colonial times for new
gun laws. moving focus from modern
embassy to historical present president.
So I want to talk a little bit about the
carry permit situation historically.
This is the day before brewing decision
came down. Carry permits although they
were almost impossible to get in the
state of New Jersey were $20.
After the brewing decision went down
they went up to $200.
Firearms ID cards the day before $5, the
day after $50. Permit to purchase
handgun went from $2 to $25.
So historically before the Bruin
decision came down to obtain all three
of those permits, the cost to the
average American constitutional loving
citizen was $27.
Now, the cost $275
that we pay to the state in New Jersey.
That's not on top of the certifications
we have to get. And sometimes, you know,
to get your certification through an NRA
instructor to please the state of New
Jersey, that can be another $200.
This is not this is all to practice our
constitutional right. These increases
happened overnight with the introduction
of bill A4769
aka we call it the carry killer bill.
They had this written before brewing
came down. With the state enacting the
carry cure bill, it carry carry killer
bill. It has constructed a payw wall.
Okay. Okay. And a payw wall basically in
terms is it stops people in certain
types of income to be able to practice
certain things like our civil liberties.
So it constructed a pay wall for lower
income citizens to practice their
constitutional rights. Therefore
depriving us from our civil liberties.
These fees are in fact redundant in the
state of New Jersey and in Harvard
Township. the CCW along with the FID
card and the handgun permits all require
the same background check one time. And
you go on the state page, it's all right
there. Click, I'm getting this. Click,
I'm getting that. Click, I'm getting
this. With the click of your laptop,
mouse, all three at one time. We have
over 18 municipalities in the state of
New Jersey who have recognized these
egregious fees and decided not to be
present prejudice of one's financial
position. They have passed and proposed
the resolution to rebate $150 back to
its constituents, keeping our god-given
rights on an even platform.
This resolution before you is not a
Republican or Democrat proposal. It is a
proposal for all residents to be able to
afford the right to celebrate together
under the Constitutions of the United
States of America when no one is left
out because of their financial status.
And if you guys do your research,
the reason we have gun control laws and
handgun control laws, it started back
when the slave the slaves were freed.
They didn't want freed slaves to have
firearms,
okay? And they made some firearm laws.
And then back in the 60s, okay, they
came out with the handgun laws. And the
reason he came out with the handgun laws
is because the Black Panthers decided to
to arm themselves against the tyrannical
government. And if you look at the old
black and white photos of the black of
the Black Panthers, what are they
carrying? They're carrying rifles and
shotguns because of the egregious
handgun laws that we put out. So what
I'm getting at is there's a lot of
municipalities that have noticed this.
So we pay $200 to the state. As soon as
we pay that $200 to the state, the state
refunds $150 back to the municipality.
Now, I know y'all can't control gun
laws, okay? That goes up to our new
governor and to the federal government,
but what you do have control over is the
$150
that you guys get back from the state of
New Jersey. They keep 50, you get you
get um 150. Now, I believe there's 465
CCW orders in Egg Harbor Township. We're
one of the biggest in South Jersey,
and that equates to about $69,000
of taxpayer money. And then you ask
yourself,
I'm up here talking for free. I'm
practicing my civil liberty, freedom of
speech. Didn't cost me a dime, and I
appreciate you all listening to me. But
then the next amendment that's right
down there is our second amendment. And
we just got charged $200
to practice our second amendment. It's
ridiculous. So I know you all don't have
the power in with the state, okay? But
you are our local municipality. You
right now are controlling that $150. And
I don't even know if you know that,
okay? But you're controlling that $150.
And then there's an argument, well, you
know, we have to pay our police officers
to do this paperwork. Again,
it's under their job description. When a
police officer or public official like
yourself, you take an oath to the
Constitution of the United States of
America. Am I right? You guys do that
every year when your reorganization
meeting. Well, doing that little bit of
paperwork, the state does most of it.
That comes under the Constitution of the
United States. We're not asking the
police department to go do a traffic
detail. Then, you know, you might have
to pay. We're, you know, we're not
asking for them to do a security detail.
You might have to pay that detail pay.
But that oath, that payroll that comes
under the oath that they took. And we
have a lot of second amendment advocates
here today. I hope that you all get a
chance to um look over this resolution.
Like I said, there's 18 municipalities.
I know app seeing is looking at it very
seriously and they're going to put it on
the agenda. You guys have signed the um
most of the folks that are on this
committee signed a form about four years
ago that you would back those second
amendment folks here in the township. Um
I hope you take a strong look at it and
I hope and I pray that we can be the one
first ones in Atlantic County to do it.
That would definitely be something and
you have control over this. It's not the
state. This is your money. So, how it
works usually with the other
municipalities is Dominic puts in for
his permit. I pay the $200 to the state.
Then I take that little piece of paper
over. I don't know to the county clerk
or whoever handles the money. I show
that the proof I paid for this. And then
the rebate check comes back to the
citizens. You all have control over that
money. And I hope that you would
consider giving it back because the
state is trying to price us out of
practicing our civil liberties. And that
is horrible. We have single moms that
are trying to protect their families.
They got to feed children. You know,
times are times are tough. Is that my
timer?
Times are times are tough.
>> Times are tough. I just I'm going to be
done after this. And just to put it in
perspective,
I have my Pennsylvania carried for me.
Awesome.
$5. And it's not for two years. It's for
five years. Plus me five bucks. Five
bucks. So I can carry and protect the
sheriff. It cost me $5 when I go over
the bridge. Okay. And that's for 5
years. State of New Jersey. I know you
don't have any control over that, but
it's over between the certification.
We're looking at $700.
I'm disabled person. I don't have any
income. How am I supposed to protect my
family? $700 every two years. So, I
appreciate your time. We have some other
advocates here and uh you have control
of that. Any questions you have for me?
>> What Dominic is when you first brought
this to my attention. It's remarkable
that the NRA featured this article in
their magazine because normally New
Jersey doesn't get the press because of
gun laws we have.
>> Right.
>> The NRA, which I'm a member of and have
been for many years, they featured this
starting I believe in Mama County. Okay.
And um that's unusual for the NRA
national organization to pick it up like
that.
>> Awesome. And you know, it really if you
think about it, this isn't even a gun
rights thing. This is we're paying for
our civil liberties. That's unheard of.
That is unheard of. So, I mean, you look
at it, take the whole way I know some
people aren't gun. Take away the whole
gun thing and we're all
constitutionalists. We're paying to
practice civil rights. So, I appreciate
your time. Might be some other folks
here that want to talk.
>> Thanks, Don.
>> Anybody else?
>> Hello, everyone. Sandra, I just need
your your name and the town you're from.
>> Yes, I'm Sandra Hickerson and I actually
live in Abstikin. I'm here to support my
fellow concealed carry uh permit holders
here and in Carver Township. So, I don't
want to repeat a lot of what Dominic
just said. So, I'm going to read I
believe Dominic already put this letter
in your folder there. Um but um today
the concealed carry permit applications
are processed through a portal
maintained by the state police. The cost
of maintaining the system is paid
through a separate transaction fee by
the applicant direct directly to the
state police in addition to the
statutory fees. With the electronic
submission, the application fee um the
applicant pays the $50 portion state
portion of the application fee directly
to the New Jersey State Police. After
submitting all required paperwork
through the portal, including
fingerprinting, reference letters, and
proof of completion of the state's
training requirements, the application
is automatically forwarded to the
municipality agency for review and
approval. We recognize that there is
some time involved with the process of
these applications and completing the
steps in the background check, but there
is no direct cost to the municipality
where the application is submitted.
The infrastructure used to complete this
application is maintained by the state
and separately paid for with each online
submission.
In New Jersey, carry permit fees are
layered fees on top of fees. An
applicant must pay a fee to obtain a
firearms
purchaser identification card, a
separate fee to obtain a pistol purchase
permit, a separate fee to the New Jersey
State Police for each of those
applications, and a separate fee to pay
for the processing of fingerprints.
Before 2022,
municipal fee to obtain a permit simply
to purchase a pistol was $2.
It is now 25
for the same background check conducted
to obtain a permit to carry that pistol.
On June 11th, as Councilman Paul Hodson
mentioned, the burrow of Englishtown and
Mammoth uh Mammoth County became the
first in the state to eliminate these
burdensome and discriminatory fees
through a rebate system bel. And there's
a again in your folder, Dominic um
attached a model resolution for there
for you to look at.
Um, so we're just asking all
municipalities across the state to
consider and pass this resolution to
ensure equal protection for our laws and
to ensure that all peaceable people can
share the same rights regardless of
their income levels. So, we're just
asking that you please consider this,
look over the information. If there's
any way that I can help provide you uh
other sample resolutions from other
towns, I'll do so. I'm not sure if
Dominic uh put that in your folder or
not. Um but again, there was 18 towns
across the state that have that has
passed this resolution so far. And um I
live in AppScin, so I've been working
with the AppScin council and it should
be either on their agenda for the either
the first or second meeting for April.
So that's coming up. So again, if you
have questions, um I've also emailed
you. I know you have my my email and my
my contact information. So, please reach
out. And again, I'm from Abseen, so
thank you very much for allowing me to
be here and speak to you tonight. So,
thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Is anyone else uh would anybody else
like to address governing body?
>> Yes, sir.
>> Your name and your town for the record?
I am uh Robert Addison from Egypt
Township. Also, I'm with Dominic on the
same thing. I'm a CCW
and um I'm retired. So, all the fees
affect me even more now that I'm
retired. So, I think the fees just not
on it's not fair. Also, thank you.
>> Chief, do you want to say anything on
this or do you want to look at this and
we can talk about it another time? All
right. Um,
>> obviously I my position I'm going to
have to remain neutral in this capacity,
>> but the one thing I will say is um the
police department I don't know that you
know as far as the Yeah. Yes. We we uh
swore an oath to do our uh to do our
jobs, but um I don't know how that
relates to the processing of the
firearms. Um Mr. Branka did mention we
are one of the busiest agencies. we have
a very high um
amount of farm permit to purchases, ID
cards and permit to carries. Um
especially when compared to many pretty
much anyone else in the county. I mean
Eggert Township I think is ahead in that
regard. So
we are doing our job. Um, we based on
the guidelines that are set for us. Um,
>> and um, and I yeah, Nigel, I know we and
I take pride in the fact that we try to
meet the 30-day uh, window and turn them
around very quickly. Um, because I know
again it's a very important that's
important thing to do. So, I guess I'm
I'm kind of going I'm moving my hands
again. James, right?
>> Hold it. Hold it.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say is uh
we but you have to also remember I guess
back when the state changed the game
with this and it inundated our
resources. you know, we haven't expanded
we haven't expanded our our uh personnel
to to um take on the additional work and
not and it's and I've said this before,
it's not just the administrative work
when it comes to back the firearms
process, but with a lot of things here
in the town and
>> trying to keep the tax rate steady and a
few other things. So,
>> yes, but that comes with consequences.
>> It does. and uh you know 20 years late
or you know we're still at this I'm
actually getting off track here. So
that's where I'll just leave it at. We
have um met the need and the demand for
the firearms that come into the agency
and we are I if if anything I think
we're going above and beyond in this in
the um the service that we provide in
that regard. As far as the fee I'm not
going to comment on that but I just
wanted to you know let Mr. America can
know that, you know, we're not we're not
um you know, we're still abiding by our
oath and processing these as fast and
quickly as possible. So, and as but also
the one thing I will say, I am very
concerned about a firearm getting into
the hands of someone that shouldn't have
a firearm. And we are very diligent in
that regard because that is a
responsibility. That is an oath that I
took. So we do very uh comprehensive
backgrounds and to ensure that firearms
aren't getting into the hands of people
that shouldn't have them. So all right,
thank you.
>> Thanks.
>> Anybody else? Sir,
>> my name is James Cassis. I've been a
council president for 41 years now. Um I
live at Six Hollow Drive presently.
Um I was a CCW holder. Uh I was able to
afford to do it the first year, but
since then uh I've been retired and now
the expenses have gotten to be too much.
Um
I was here back
um before uh when this this committee
passed a resolution, but just to remind
him in 2015, Mayor Sunny McCulla had
called on the New Jersey legislature to
loosen the gun restrictions allow
citizens to carry non-conceal weapons.
February 19th, 2020.
This town should pass a resolution
supporting the Second Amendment.
The state has been violating our 2A
knowing it was unconstitutional for a
long time until uh Breuan validated that
they were violating our civil rights.
These legislators had a score of new
legislation trying to subvert the Bruent
decision knowing it would be years and
hundreds of thousands of dollars to
litigate back up to the Supreme Court.
Members in this hall at that time could
would ask us tell us that this is the
state legislators who passed this. We're
just a township. Uh you know what can we
do? That was the question. So you pass
me but what else can we do? Well, here's
a situation where what you can do. Okay.
Um,
and you talk about uh the police
department's responsibilities and their
jobs and and I understand it costs money
to do these things, but when my home was
broken into when I lived on Delila Road
back in the in the late 80s, nobody told
me, "Hey, Jim, we really like to
investigate this breakin, but you know
what? It's only you. it's not fair to
the other taxpayers that they have to
absorb the cost to investigate this
breakin.
Okay. Uh and they would ask what other
things happen in this township that uh
the few pay for the many or the many. Uh
we we have uh 67% of all households in
the township do not have any children
under the age of 18. So that means 67%
of the households in the township pay
for 33% of kids going to school. That's
a perfect example of where other
citizens are paying for benefits that
they're not refusing uh benefiting from.
These are things that are important.
Education is important but it's the
benefits for the good for many
practicing and our civil rights is the
same way.
Another example, we just had a recent
school board. There was 3,000 votes out
of the potential of 37,000 voters. Do we
charge the voters money to pay for Why
is it fair that 37,000 people have to
pay for 6,000?
Again, it's part of us practicing our
constitutional rights.
So,
as this committee and the mayor want to
honor their constitutional oath by
waving these fees,
it would be in conjunction or agreement
with the resolution that you made back
in 2019
or the committee passed another
resolution saying that we honor your
constitutional rights, but only if you
can afford to pay for it. Thank you.
>> Thank you, sir.
>> Anybody else?
Seeing none, can I have a motion to
close the public portion?
>> Second.
>> Uh, roll call, please.
>> Yes.
>> All right.
Council committee reports.
>> Mr. Castellano.
>> Nothing new for this week. Mayor
>> Mr. Pauls,
>> I have nothing this week.
I'll make a three for three. I have
nothing other than good luck and
springtime is here. I'm sick of this
weather. Too cold, too snowy. Let's have
a nice spring.
>> I think we all second that. Mr. Ellis,
>> nothing this week.
>> Well, I'm not going to change either.
So, absolutely nothing. Uh except for I
do would like to make your Muslim
friends the uh Ramadan ends tomorrow.
So, those that have been on a fast for a
month, um
we're glad that that the time went fast
and your holy day will be celebrated,
which will be good. So, everybody enjoy
the sunshine. Um I hope it's coming. We
have a little bit more for us to do, I
think. But, uh we just want And also,
please check online about our
dispatchers. You know, there's an adopt
a dispatcher. you know, little things
you can drop off, you know, uh
>> I can bring pizza,
>> flowers, um you know, just little
things. Think of candy bars, M&M's, so
they can have them on their consoles.
They do an incredible job. They do an
incredible job. So, we're going to
donate things to them. We ask the public
just to say and and for them, they're
the unsung heroes. You don't nobody sees
them. So, that's all I'm going to say
about that. And just wish Well, let's go
to the next part, but then I'll wish
everybody good night.
>> Tom, do we have a need for a close
session? Yes, ma'am.
>> You know that. Stop it. Resolution 136
authorizing the township committee to
convene in a closed executive session to
discuss matters which may involve
personnel and or legal matters.