Ventnor City Special Commission Meeting June 30 2025

Okay, calling to order special meeting
June 30th, 2025 at 2 PM.
Uh, can we all rise for the flag salute,
please?
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of United States of
America to the republic for it stands.
One nation one nation
indivisible and justice for all and
justice for all.
Thank you. Uh I have roll call Lisa,
please. Commissioner Langraph here.
Commissioner Mento here. Mayor Kel here.
Thank you. Can I have the uh would you
like would you please read the open
public meeting announcement, please?
Pursuant to the open public meetings
act, adequate notice of this meeting has
been provided. The agenda for this
meeting is posted at city hall and on
the city's website.
Thank you. Would you please read the
live streaming announcement, Lisa? The
city of Bender offers a live streaming
and the option of public comment via
remote access as a convenience to the
public. In the event remote access is
unavailable for any reason beyond the
city's control, the city will not pause
or stop the live meeting and the city
reserves the right to discontinue remote
access at the discretion of the city for
any future meetings. Thank you. Uh we
have three resolutions uh to adopt
today. Correct, Lisa? Yes. Thank you. So
we have uh first resolution is 2025-217.
This is uh state of New Jersey awarding
contract for special professional
services of Tiffany A. Please help me
pronounce your name. Coullio.
Good. That works. To provide veterary
planning services. Correct.
Correct. Do I have a Do I take a motion
to adopt that resolution? I'll make a
motion we adopt resolution 2025-217.
A second.
She's muted and phone off and audio off.
I had unmuted. Okay. Can you hear me?
Yes. Yep. Second.
Roll call. Lisa, please. Commissioner
Langraph. Yes. Commissioner Mento. Yes.
Mayor Creable. Yes.
We have a second motion. Um we'll need
for resolution 2025-218.
is resolution regarding the New Jersey
petitioning with an adopted housing
element and fair share plan.
Just a question on this one first. Uh
Juliet, do we have to do anything for
the public first or we can adopt these
and then have public post that?
Well, there isn't any requirement for a
public hearing at this level, but that's
really within your discretion if you
want to hear comments from the public.
This this next one is just adopting what
the planning board just amended our
master plan with the housing element and
fair share plan. Just maybe just as a as
a way to be more transparent, we have
Tiffany go through a very brief
presentation at this point. Mayor, you
agree with that? I agree 100%. Okay. Y I
agree also. Okay. So brief. Um
the city is entering into the affordable
housing realm under the fourth round of
affordable housing requirements in New
Jersey. Every municipality has a con
statewide constitutional obligation to
provide affordable housing. This plan
provides for your obligation from 1987
through 2035. It includes your
rehabilitation present need obligation
of 24 credits which you'll work with the
uh Atlanta County Improvement Authority
for. And then it includes a total of 60
credits required for the cumulative um
1987 through 2035 period. Prior round is
27, third round is 19, fourth round is
14, totals up to 60. We did a vacant
land analysis which showed that you only
had the ability to accommodate a
realistic development potential of three
units based on existing vacant property
leaving an unmet need of 57 credits. Um
in terms of meeting your requirement, we
were able to look at existing improve uh
existing facilities in the city
including Shalom Towers and two existing
group homes as well as a credit from uh
one of the existing cooperative sober
living residences. Uh that gave us a
total of hold on let me do this right
because I didn't do my math beforehand.
That gave us a total of 49.5
credits towards your 60 unit
requirement, leaving an unmet need of
10.5 unsatisfied. In order to satisfy
that 10.5 uh requirement, you do not
have to affirmatively designate a site,
but you have to provide reasonable
opportunity. The proposal and the
ordinances that would be adopted if
approved by the state would be a uh
citywide overlay ordinance which would
say any development in the future uh
that provides 10 or more multif family
units would have to do a 10% or 20%
affordable housing set aside. So if they
build 10, eight would be market, two
would be affordable. if they build more
the same percentages. Um it is uh for
any site that either is under existing
zoning if it provides for it is reszoned
because you're going through a master
plan process and reszone goes through a
variance process or a future um
agreement with the city to allow for
that type of housing. Uh this does not
apply to any existing developments that
are before the board and it does not
apply to any existing approved
redevelopment plans um that have been
presented to the city. So um that would
address your unmet need of 10.5. And the
plan also provides the future
opportunity uh to use development impact
fees collected through the statemandated
development fee requirements for
non-residential development to maybe off
to create future market to affordable
units or to provide funds for other
rehab units or to provide mortgage
assistance, down payment assistance and
other um administrative uh mechanisms
throughout the city. That's the short
version of what I just did.
That perfect. I I appreciate that. And I
just want to comment my takeaway as I've
become over this process a little bit
more educated in this that the main
takeaways that I see as as as a resident
is that these are highly technical
formulas that um are um have been um
that are mandated and it's our
constitutional obligation to provide
these in the in the state of New Jersey.
And the and when and I think the main
key takeaways are these is that the for
me anyway is that the the these are
funded by non-residential developments
any any any fees. So they're not it's
not it's not something that becomes a
taxpayer burden and that the the suggest
and that the plan includes an overlay of
the entire city with uh and and is only
triggered by a a development of 10 units
or more where 20% be becomes part of our
obligation. and correct me if I'm wrong
on any of this, but this gives us the
the most flexibility and also another
bite of the apple when it comes time to
approve these sorts of things throughout
the city. And then um and then one of
the main things is it protects us from
uh builder remedy lawsuits which could
um which would be a negative obviously.
U but this is something that um that is
it's a necessary step for the city to
take.
Agreed. Yeah. So, I'm just trying to put
it from in a frame of mind as a as a as
a resident as well. Yeah. It it's been
and I said this at the planning board
and and you know, Tiff and I are in in
the same world, so to speak, but she she
does the same kind of planning I do, but
she stayed in the in the COA, which what
this used to be called, affordable
housing used to be called, council and
affordable housing. She stayed in that
world. I got out of it about 25 years
ago. Um, we have some go back between
that sometimes. We we worked on a
project together in a municipality a
couple of months ago where she did the
the COA planning and I did the the site
planning work. Um it's something I just
didn't it's a lot it's it's a lot to get
done and it's been in litigation since
the early 2000s. So I just you know just
one of the things I want to put out
there that municipalities in New Jerseys
have had this obligation to provide
opportunities for affordable housing
since the Supreme Court found it. as you
said comm or mayor the state
constitutional obligation in the Mount
Laurel case in 75
we're the first administration to take
this obligation seriously since that
legislature adopted this fourth round is
really when it became you know after COA
failed administrations they sued the
state a lot of folks sued the state um
so we're making the best effort we can
yes it is rushed I will I will admit
that um but we have to do this at this
point to protect us from overdevelopment
with a builder's remedy lawsuit. Um, so
I think that is an aspect of of what we
need to do to one provide affordable
housing for folks that need assistance.
Um, certainly supportive of that and
this is the best way to do it.
So that that just a quick comment. So
again, I thank Tiffany and and and
Juliet and everyone who worked on this
and Lisa for jumping on getting us on
these meetings today.
Much appreciated.
Maria's Maria keeps getting muted. There
you're on now, Maria. Yeah. Could you
please stop muting me and taking me off
video? I don't think he has it. I don't
think it's his. I'm not doing it. It's
two or three times. Yeah, it happened to
me on the last meeting. Um I have a few
questions. Is that okay, Tim? Yeah.
just for clarity and for any public that
may be um have gotten on to on the
meeting or may look at this later. Um
I I'd like to know a few things. What if
we do nothing and what are other towns
doing? That's the second one. And then
the third one, how long has affordable
housing requirements been around? And
has the city done anything about it in
previous I know we I know we've we've
been following this but has has the city
done anything previously? No, we've
never never addressed affordable
housing. 75 was when litigation started
1975. Okay. in the 80s that that COA was
formed, Council on Affordable Housing
when the requirements started to come
out and then there was litigation in the
Tiffany, correct me if I'm wrong, early
2000s, late 90s. Um, yeah. So then it
was in flux for a long time. Governor
Christie abolished it during his uh
tenure. Um, abolish might be a strong
word, but but basically shut it down.
This fourth round comes out of again the
litigation that everyone now is trying
to rush to get compliant with. Um
Tiffany, correct me if I'm wrong. Again,
if we don't comply, a builder could come
in and buy up, you know, um say he buys
up that beachfront lot where Steve
Wind's house was and says, "I'm going to
put 10 multif family here and I'm going
to do 20% set aside." He can do that
without our without he can sue us under
a builder's remedy lawsuit and put that
development there without us having a
zoning say in that matter at all.
Correct. So that that's the issue that
we're trying to protect ourselves from.
Good question. And and I know folks
don't if you don't if you're not in this
world, it's a hard thing to understand,
but you know, builder's remedy lawsuits
have, you know, Brigantine got involved
in one years ago. Um, and we end up
doing an overlay district similar to
this, but more more focused. I think
they're changing that plan now with
Tiffany's assistance. Um, so you don't
want to fall into that builder's remedy
lawsuit. Then you lose all zoning
control in your in your municipality.
and and Lance, I'll add to that what
other municipalities are doing. Um, in
Atlantic County, there's still a few
that have done nothing. Um, and that is
their choice. Um I think with Bentner um
one of the things that whether it was
intentional or not in the third round
there was a continuous lawsuits on how
you calculate your obligation and
municipalities had to fight with
Fairshare Housing Center to determine
their obligation until 2018 when the
Jacobson decision came out and then
after that where the courts started
accepting that decision. Um at that
point then we were too close to the
fourth round. When Fairshare Housing put
out the numbers for Ventner in the third
round, it was 171. The Jacobson decision
made 19. You would have had to negotiate
down from 171 and never would have got
down to 19. So that hold out saved you
significantly um in terms of not having
to do that larger obligation based on
all that litigation that went down over
the years. So this is actually a benefit
to the city because now you have a
reasonable number and a formula that
makes sense on how to calculate your
obligation. I agree with that.
Definitely agree with that. So this has
been around 50 years. It's been around
for a while. Okay. Right. Um
I had one more question. Let me think.
What was it? Oh, so just um my
understanding very simply, this will
apply to any development that is greater
than 10
units or 10 homes going up, right? Do I
get that right? And that means two of
them will have to be um dedicated for
affordable housing.
Correct. That's what Yes. So, it would
have to be a location in the city where
we're going to see the development of 10
10 homes on on a a piece of land.
Yes. Correct. Okay.
I'm hesitating because I don't know
whether to answer it or let Tiffany
answer it. That is the correct answer.
Um there is also the provision like I
said um when you collect your
development fees you can start doing a
market to affordable program like
Brigantine does and other towns that
don't have a lot of land and if you get
to that 10.5 through that program if you
get enough units over time you can
eliminate the overlay zoning because now
you satisfied your obligation. So you
you just don't want to do the market to
affordable program as your affirmative
because you would then have to put tax
dollars to it until you got money from
your trust fund. And that's why we're
not doing it that way because we don't
want to put tax dollars to a program um
that you can fund through
non-residential development fees. Okay.
And I missed the beginning of that
because my ring went off, but um the the
I I don't know if you took did did we
mention about the role of the ACIA? Does
some of that apply to the that applies
to the rehabilit applies to the
rehabilitation number which is different
than the 10.5 that's
okay.
Um in regard to the fees
um again so that we're all on the same
page. Can the can and I know the answers
for this but sometimes I'll ask you
something just so we can all hear it
again or so others can hear it. Can
those monies go I know it's not a lot of
money but can those monies go to
anything else like to reduce taxes only
as it relates to affordable housing.
Okay. So providing for the programs that
relate to affordable housing that you
would otherwise may need to use tax
dollars for. So staffing related to
affordable housing a portion of that can
be offset. Correct. Okay.
And I if I can just linger on that for a
second, I think that's what can be sound
bureaucratic and confusing is that
there's really two ways to remedy the
word affordable housing in our area,
right? It's this fee structure that can
be used towards towards other
obligations and it's also the
development of properties, right? Is
that is that fair to say?
So yes, you can collect the funds that
the state would otherwise take and use
it to create units if you get enough uh
funds to do so. You can also use the
funds to offset the administrative cost
and to help people in the affordable
units. So yes, right, I think that is
okay. How does how does rentals apply to
all this? So an affordable unit can be
for sale or rental. It depends on the
person who's building it and what their
model is. So, um, you know,
just depends on who the developer is if
they're developing units. Okay. So, the
rental would count because that's what
the developer built it for. Correct.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Rental is preferred in
the affordable housing world, but it can
be for sale or rental. And is that a
30-year commitment as a rental? It is.
Yes. Okay.
Just for the location, though, not the
person doesn't have to stay there, but
if you're going to rent it, right,
restrict it, it's going to be a 30-year
restriction. Got it. You can't force
someone to stay there if they want to.
My god. I understand. Just to make that
clear to everybody. Yep.
It's a lot. And I appreciate the the the
access you've given us and the uh to to
to sort of put a um to put it in
layman's terms for us. Um very helpful.
Thank you, Tiffany. And as was noted in
the planning board meeting, I was
listening to that. Um, Tiffany, thank
you for all your work on this and um,
very extensive and I I understand you
have many municipal clients that you've
done this for and you're highly
qualified. Yes.
All right.
That I think we're waiting for a motion
for the second resolution. Yeah, if I
could have a motion for um resolution
2025-218
as described earlier, New Jersey
petitioning with adopted housing element
and fair share plan that we just
discussed. I'll make that motion.
Second.
Roll call. Lisa, Commissioner Landria.
Yes. Commissioner Mento, yes. Mayor Kel,
yes.
We have uh another last resolution is
2025-218.
This is resolution uh for state of New
Jersey requesting review and approval of
our municipal housing trust fund and
spending plan. So this is uh um also
part of the packet that has been um uh
distributed regards to the um the
spending plan uh that is uh that is
anticipated through fees of
non-residential development dollars. Um
do I have a motion to adopt? Make a
motion to adopt resolution 2025-219.
I second that. Have a roll call. Lisa
Commissioner Langri. Yes, Commissioner
Mento. Yes, Mayor Creel. Yes.
Thank you all. At this time, we have a
portion of for the public. We welcome uh
any participants, organizations or
individuals as well as in special
meetings to uh to um uh to have any uh
questions or comments um during at any
um any items that we've discussed so
far. Uh Jim, knowing this is all on uh
on Zoom, has anyone indicated a um they
would like to speak on any of the
resolutions or any of the comments? Uh
so far, anybody in Zoom wish to question
or comment any of these items?
Lisa, can you send Nette the
resolutions? Yes, of course. I think I
did send them earlier, but I will send
them again. Yes. And please, this is
Julie Hirs. Would you please send those
two resolutions after they're signed as
soon as you can? We'll file them with
the state. Thank you. Okay. No questions
or comments.
Um, my video went off again.
Lance, um, for the public, did you want
to mention, as you did in the planning
board, why we're doing this today?
Um, this is the deadline. Um, this is,
you know, there's there's I think
Tiffany's doing three or four different
meetings just today, uh, just to get
this finished up for a lot of
municipalities. There were delays in
finalizing our everyone's numbers and
making sure they were right. And as
Tiffany talked about briefly, you know,
our numbers went down, so we're we're at
a good spot right now um to do this. So,
I would say, you know, we're doing it
today to make sure that our municipality
is protected from these builders remedy
lawsuits as I talked about. Um, and to
provide, you know, an option for for
those that that that need it to get
through, you know, an affordable place
to live on our island. So, that's
something we certainly want to provide
and we can help folks with. Um,
probably went into more detail on the
planning board, but I think we covered
more in this one earlier on. So,
okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Um, so no, uh, no comments
from the public. Am I Is that correct,
James? That's correct.
All right. Um, hearing none. Um, can I
have a motion to adjurnn? So moved.
Second. Lisa, may I have roll call,
please? Commissioner Langrath, yes.
Commissioner Mento, yes. Mayor Creos.
Yes. Thank you all. Disconnect me.
Julie, I just sent you the signed
documents with resolution numbers for
filing, so you're good to go. Got it.
Thank you. I'm off to my next. Thanks,
guys. Good luck. Thank you.