May 28 2026 Ventnor City Commission Meeting

Good evening everybody.
Sounds official.
>> Good evening everybody. Welcome to the
May 28th, 2026 commission meeting. Jim,
I'm sorry if I jumped the gun there. Is
everybody uh in the Zoom platform? Okay.
>> Yep. You're good to go.
>> All right. So, I call to order the
meeting. Uh please rise for the flag
salute.
Pledgiance to the flag of the United
States of Americ.
>> Lisa, may I have a roll call, please?
>> Commissioner Lang Grant,
>> here.
>> Commissioner Mento,
>> here.
>> Mayor Creable
>> here. Thank you. Uh, Lisa, would you
like to read the open public meetings
announcement? Pursuant to the Open
Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of
this meeting has been provided. The
agenda for this meeting is posted in
city hall and on the city's website.
>> Thank you. Would you please leave read
the live stream announcement?
>> The city of Vander offers live streaming
and the option of public comment via
remote access as a convenience to the
public. In the event remote access is
unavailable for any reason beyond the
city's control, the city will not pause
or stop the live meeting. The city
reserves the right to discontinue remote
access at the discretion of the city for
any future meetings.
>> Thank you. So, we have a a slightly
different um organization,
excuse me, this evening. We have uh we
first need a resolution
the city of Ventner County of Atlantic
State of New Jersey authorizing the
budget to be read by title only. Um, may
I have a motion?
>> I'll make that motion.
>> I have a second.
>> Second.
>> Lisa, roll call, please.
>> Commissioner Langra,
>> yes.
>> Commissioner Mento,
>> yes.
>> Mayor Creable.
>> Thank you. Um, there is a slight there's
a short preamble to that that I'd like
to read. And if uh and then after I'd
like to have um uh Leon if you have any
any comments to make on that
>> on the read by title only.
>> Uh read by title only.
>> Yeah. is all that means is that the
budget's almost 100 pages long and the
clerk would have to read every line of
it if you don't make that statement. So
you just saved her a lot of time,
>> right? So whereas
um this budget provides to be read by
title only at the time of the public
hearing, if a resolution is passed by
not less than a majority, the full
governing body provided providing that
at least one week prior to the date of
the hearing, a completed copy of the
approved budget is advertised and has
been posted in the municipal building
and copies have been made available by
the city clerk to persons requiring
them. And whereas these two conditions
have been met. So that preamble has been
read into the record. Uh um do we have
any um would you like to make any
comments on the budget itself? I think
we had uh discussion the three of us.
Would you like have any any comments
before we move on to the next uh
>> yeah tonight's actual public hearing. So
the budget that was presented for
introduction back in April, it's the
same budget that we have tonight for
adoption. there'll be one minor change
that you make that shifts uh two items
of revenue, one up, one down by the same
amount. So there's there's no change in
the total budget. So it's the same
budget that was introduced. Uh there
have been no comments, no questions
brought by anybody that that I know of.
And now it's time that you open it to
the public. Let them comment on the
budget and we'll field any questions
that they have.
>> Okay.
All right. Um so uh we have um we can
now open it to the public if there's
anyone in the public that can make a
comment on the budget as has been
reported. There will be one uh small one
resolution adopting to amend the budget
which is a net zero no change in the
numbers no change in the budget simply
the um uh two line items uh that is a
net zero change.
So, if anyone uh here in the public
would like to make a comment about the
budget, please step forward, state your
name and address.
>> Good evening, Tim Chryser, Ventner City.
>> You're speaking on the mic. We couldn't
hear anything.
>> Tim Cryer, Ventner City.
>> Thank you.
Is there a reason the uh public hearing
and the resolution is on the workshop
agenda and not on the regular work
meeting agenda?
>> Tom,
uh it's just a matter of timing. The the
meeting was advertised to start at 5:30,
so that's that's why.
>> Okay. Thank you.
So, uh I do have some questions,
comments, concerns, suggestions for the
budget. Uh, I will try to be as
efficient as possible uh in order to
comply with the three minute time limit
uh for public input. Uh, and again, if I
say anything that's incorrect, I'm sure
Leon will correct me, but I certainly
don't want to disseminate any false
information. So, if I have any of my
fingers wrong, please point them out to
me. I understand this may ultimately
come down to a philosophical difference
in budgeting priorities. However,
however, as I've raised previously, I
believe the city should have a great use
a greater percentage of the available
surplus to reduce the tax increase
imposed on residents, particularly in a
year when taxpayers are facing increase
of more than 6 cents and a $75 or 10%
increase in water and sewer flat rates.
Residents are already dealing with
rising costs for food, gasoline,
utilities, medical expenses, and other
necessities. Many are under significant
financial pressure and could benefit
from additional relief. A substantial
portion of this surplus exists because
certain 2025 budget accounts were funded
above actual expenditures. In many
respects, this is taxpayer money that
has already been collected. I believe
the current budget utilizes 50.8% 8% of
the budget or of the available surplus.
Does that sound about right?
>> The budget is using 4,620,000
of 9,078.
So it's slightly more than 50%.
>> Okay. Uh
I would suggest that increasing that
figure to 56.8%.
it would still be remain below the 59%
that you used last year while gaining an
additional $544,772
in revenue. That adjustment could reduce
a tax increase by almost 2.5 cents,
which would represent approximately a
40% reduction in the proposed increase.
Even with that additional use of
surplus, the city will still maintain an
estimate surplus balance of
approximately 3.9 million, which remains
well above the 3.1 million balance
carried into the 2025 budget.
For comparison purposes, Margate
reportedly what I could see, utilize
approximately 64% of its surplus while
still maintaining a remaining balance of
more than three million.
My recommendation would provide
meaningful relief to taxpayers without
jeopardizing the city's financial
stability and I respectfully ask the
governing body to consider it. I would
like to also commend the CFO for
increasing interest earnings on
investments and deposits to
approximately $932,000.
Whether this was primarily market driven
or a result of a more aggressive
investment strategy, this dollar amount
seems in line with other municipalities.
Question. Does a city engage any company
to provide cash management flow advice?
>> It's Mike. Um, forgive me. We do.
>> We use the uh New Jersey cash management
um NJRM
So you do have somebody that provides
advice. Okay, good. Thank you.
Um,
knowing the city must track your
expenditures and revenues throughout the
year. This significant tax increase
should not have come as a surprise.
Based on that is uh my opinion that the
city should have moved quicker earlier
this year to sell the two Veter Avenue
properties at the beginning of this year
rather than wait until now. Had these
properties been marketed and sold
earlier, the proceeds could have been uh
used to offset this year's tax increase
by another 1.3 cents and reduce the uh
economic burden being now being placed
on taxpayers. I'll I'll touch base on
that if I can, Tim.
>> Sure.
>> We tried to sell these properties twice
now.
>> Twice
>> this year.
>> Within the last three years, we've tried
to sell these properties twice.
>> I understand.
>> And we've got no bids on them.
>> I agree. I understand.
>> So, we reappraised them, lowered that
appraised value a little bit, and we're
trying again.
>> I just wish you would have done it
earlier in the year.
>> I wish I would have sold them two years
ago. I
>> I I wish you would have too, but you
didn't. And so, it's my suggestion that
wish you would have acted quicker to put
them on the market. I can wish it didn't
rain last weekend for Memorial Day. So,
>> keep moving.
>> A lot of wishes here and a lot of
wishes.
>> There is a lot of
>> the taxpayers.
>> That being said, I'm sorry. Did I do I
am muse you as as as the god not the
godfather. What was it? Uh, good fellas.
Do I amuse you or Okay.
Yeah, I'll tell you the residents paying
6 cents tax increase and 10% increase in
property and water and sewer rates are
not laughing. At least I don't think
they are. What do I know?
Uh so if they were sold earlier, if it
was combined with my earlier suggestions
to use a larger portion of the surplus,
the revenue from these property sales
could have potentially reduced this
increase to approximately two 2.2 2
cents. That level of increase would have
been more consistent with surrounding
communities and significantly more
manageable for residents than the
current 6centent increase being proposed
in the 10% increase in water and sewer.
While selling the property later in 2026
may certainly improve the city's
financial position for 2027,
many residents need tax relief now. That
raises a fair question. Why was
improving next year's budget picture
prioritized over reducing the financial
impact on taxpayers this year? The city
budget is $410,000
under uh classification utility fund ex
expense allocation. My understanding
that this is money that the water and
sewer utility pays back to the city for
expenses that are initially charged to
the city from the general budget. Is
this accurate?
Yes, that is what the money's for. How
>> how does that $410,000
determined?
>> By let's just take the example of the
tax office downstairs. They handle both
the water and sewer collections and the
tax collections. Even though the numbers
are bigger in the tax side of it, the
number of transactions are equal. So
approximately 50% of each gets allocated
to make up that 410,000.
>> So in her department, you have purchase
orders,
>> governor officials, Mr. check her own
everything
>> they all so that figure goes into that
410,000
>> do I looked at the water and sewer
utility budget uh I do not see any
expense for health for benefits or for
pension contributions
>> it's another expense
>> are they attributed to the budget to the
general budget
>> it's it's in the utility other expenses
>> other expenses
>> yeah it's not separated
>> all right thank
Uh
so leaving that out that the city could
have with a uh greater use of the
surplus and putting the properties up
for sale could have reduced the uh tax
increase on the public.
Well, I can see that I'm well over my
three minutes. the rest that I have to
say I'll leave for another time uh
uh in another forum. So, thank you for
letting me exceed my three minutes and
uh thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments. Um
Commissioner
Mento, do you have any comments on the
budget?
>> Just Commission Lang,
>> look, we don't like raising these these
taxes. It's not something we enjoy up
here. We worked through this budget.
We did something what about five months
a four months ago or so that got us out
of the state health plan. That would
have increased our health benefits for
our our staff, all of our staff by 36 to
37%. That's what the state health plan
went up this year for everybody else who
stayed in it. We were able to use our
our insurance uh consultant, Terry
Flynn. He got us finally out of that
system. He tried for years to get us
out. Um, no one wants a small
municipality with a lot of elder elder
older folks that are that work for us.
They don't want those health issues. So,
no health plan wants us. Terry was able
to find something where it's a
self-insured blend that saved us about
16, no more than that. About what? 18%.
>> The difference between 37% and 14%.
>> Yeah. So, that saved us. Yes. Still an
increase. still a 14 or 15% increase,
but it's not 37% increase that we would
have had to have paid if we stayed in
that system. Um,
there's always second guessing to
everything you do up here, and we
understand that there's there's better
way there's we hope we find the best way
to do things. Um, we've tried to sell
these properties. One is an unbuildable
parcel um that's been in the city's
ownership for for many years. Um, there
is interest with one of the adjoining
property owners. We hope that they now
will purchase it this time. Um, the one
that we purchased that is on Ventner
Avenue here right in in the downtown
that was a fire. We purchased it from
the owner for a very little amount of
money um because they were going to let
it go to a use that we didn't think was
appropriate for downtown. If you recall
that they were looking at that for for a
um group home,
>> right?
>> So, we purchased it. Um we hope that we
have interest in it this time. You know,
I had some calls. I directed them to our
QPA uh if they had any questions on it.
So, you know, hopefully they will sell.
You can't always sell things when you
want to. Um these are unavoidable
operational expenses that from a
municipality.
>> You know, we have staff that that under
contractal agreements, they get
increases. We did we were able to
benefit for from the the health plan
being moved out of that but that's still
a significant expense. Um we have
prioritized infrastructure in this city.
A lot of that comes out of my
department. There were years where
nothing was done to repair our
infrastructure. It's aging. It's it's
this building costs us more money than
than a typical municipal building does
because it's an old building. Same with
our sewer and water lines. Uh we are
constantly repairing them, replacing
them. Um so that is a huge uh issue with
costs. Flood mitigation pumping
stations, we're adding those to the
heights. Um there's a resiliency plan
that we're waiting to get funding from
the IBank on that would eliminate some
of the nuisance flooding along Edgewater
and Derby and hopefully Dorset Avenue so
the bridge doesn't have to close because
of flooding. Not going to talk about the
bridge closing for other reasons because
we don't control that. But flooding,
we're trying to do something there that
will eliminate that new bulkhead
requirements in those areas. Um, finding
all these gaps in the bulkhead where you
have old storm drains. Um, that's a 7.5
million dollar project that we hope to
be working through over the next couple
years. The lead uh water service line
replacement, that's something that's
mandated by the state to do that. Um, we
we hope to get funding. We hope to get
grants for that. We hope to get some
loans for that from the I bank. Some of
that is is fully forgivable, not all of
it. Um we are that's why we are raising
the sewer and water rates. We need to
bank that money because we're going to
have to do this. The state is mandating
it. It's not our call. And and by the
way, our lead service line numbers, lead
service, excuse me, speaking too fast.
Um our lead in our water is very very
low. The threshold for it is 15 parts
per billion. We're below two really. I
think the last test was below one. So,
we're not in a in an urgent to do this,
but the state mandated every
municipality to do it. Those are costs
that we can't control. We're trying to
do it as best we can. Um,
you know, we're looking to protect
long-term community value, structural
resilience in our community, maintain
our infrastructure. Uh, we're not paving
a lot of roads right now because we're
going to have to dig them all up for
this leadline service thing. So, I know
people are complaining about the bumpy
roads. Um, we're we're trying. We're
getting there. We're doing them as we
can and as we do municipal projects, we
just bid out and we'll be be doing the
Winchester Avenue. We'll replace those
water lines as we go through there so we
don't have to worry about digging that
up. Um, just I wanted to get into some
of the details of why these things are
costing more.
>> Everything costs more. We understand
that. Um, I'll say more about that a
little bit later on in in our agenda,
but you know, we've tried to get through
this as best we can. We understand the
use of of more of the surplus is an
option. Um the best recommendations from
the guy that does this for almost every
municipality in in our region is that we
shouldn't use that right now. Um you
know that's the best practices and we
are following those practices. Running
budgets is not what I do for a living.
That's what Leon does for a living. We
trust his judgment on how to do this and
that's the recommendation that I think
we should be following. So I'll stop
talking now. I I I just want to add
because you mentioned health insurance
increases even though going um
self-funded reduced the amount of
increase which our employees by the way
contribute to. So as that cost goes up
what they pay also goes up but we also
had increases in statutory expenses that
we have no control over like pension
like unemployment like Medicare
um our other insurance workers comp and
general liability also increased. So
these are um expenses and line items we
have very little control over. Um as I
said Medicare, pension, social security,
unemployment. We're told what that
number has to be. We don't make it up.
And again, as um Lance said, Leon is the
expert. He is the financial genius. I'm
probably embarrassing him, but he he
does
he does about every city in the in in
the county, if not I don't know where
else
>> outside of the county. He advises us on
how much fund balance to use. And I feel
we would be foolish not to not to follow
his advice. I mean, we we sat there
around the table. We questioned him. We
debated it. We argued it. We all, you
know, said, "What can we do? Can we do
this? Can we do that?" We put a little
bit more in there that he thought we
could handle. He will tell us what it's
going to look like in 2027 if we do X,
Y, and Z or if we don't do X, Y, and Z.
>> So, um, we have to listen to him. That's
why you hire experts.
>> Go ahead. Yeah, you do it.
>> Yeah. So, so that trust is earned. We've
been in office together as a team for 10
years. And when we got in office, we've
been there, there's levers that have
been pulled when the interest rates were
high and our coffers were were growing.
we knew when what levers to pull then
and but th and this is a different
story. This is a moment in time and in
this moment in time as the other
commissioners said um the strategic use
of the reserve is meant to um is meant
to to is to avoid uh a v any
vulnerabilities in our revenue. It's to
make sure our cash flow is stable when
things when when we have payments that
we have to make for bond matches, things
of that nature, that the money is there.
But it's also on a bigger picture. It's
a credit rating protection. Our credit
rating has improved over the years
because we've kept our our reserve in
proportion to a growing budget. Budgets
like any like everybody in our homes,
our budgets are growing not not always
through our own um our own actions. In
this case, the top five noteworthy
appropriations increase. And you've
heard this before, public safety. I
think there's a lot of misconceptions
about where that that that portion of
the dollar goes, but public safety is
contractual obligations. Staffing levels
have to be kept and it represents
probably the single largest driver. Um
health insurance was mentioned 37%
um would have been devastating. On top
of this, uh 37% rate hike. The health
costs are are rising not just in Ventner
but all over. We found a more uh stable
uh plan that reflects uh the increases
and and hopefully makes us uh a more
stable uh healthcare insurance like like
uh Commissioner Mento mentioned the
general liabilities and workman comp.
These are unavoidable broad market
insurance costs, statutory expenditures.
Um these are all uh pensions and the
contributions they go up with the
salaries that are going up at the same
time. um operations and fuel. Those are
the big those are the big hit uh the big
hit items and the dollars are um are
substantial 1.6 million I think is the
total from last year to this year. 1.6
million in increases that are not that
are mostly statutory or mostly uh things
that are
>> that that are part of these increases
that are contractual. So there's no
mystery here. the data um that it kind
of tells its own at this point in time.
Um it it's we we try to balance those
those expenditures with as much
discipline as we can and try to protect
our taxpayers while keeping the city on
a on a foundational footing. Um but you
know there's a lot of misconceptions.
The the the the water rate increase that
was mentioned by the public and here um
the alternative isn't realistic. The
alternative is that then we're faced
with one time large borrowing or a sharp
increase in the future or using general
tax dollars to subsidize the utility.
This is good planning for the future
because this is a 10-year requirement
that costs 60
>> our estimates are 65 to 70 million
>> $5 million to make sure that your water
is safe to drink. Delaying it is going
to mean uh is is is just not an option.
And I'm I I'll just hit on a couple
other things that are I think also
misconceptions. The ratables. People
expect that uh uh there's a there's a
perception out there that because
there's so much building that ratables
are going to leave us with all this
money to spend and and and choices.
That's not true. That we have a 2%
appropriations cap. That means that even
when the city ratables go up, we can't
spend more than 2% year-over-year. Is
that correct, Leon?
>> Can't levy.
>> Can't levy
>> levy tax.
>> Can't levy the tax. Correct. So the And
then there's an appropriation tax. So
those two things work in tandem in a
point where um we're in some ways it's
it's it's an analogy is that just
because your your house is worth more
doesn't mean that you have that much
more cash in your hand to spend. That's
an analogy that I think makes that
appropriate. Um so we're we we have to
gra we we can only use that um
gradually. So, so as Lance and Maria
both said, we we uh this is not
something that we we uh take any
enjoyment out of, but we do take a lot
of trust into our finance team and the
fact that we've all taken these numbers
home and try to understand them as best
we can. Um this is the the the budget um
not the budget we want, but it's the
budget that we have. Um at this point,
>> um we have an amendment.
>> Well, I wanted to mention one other
thing. One of the things we have to
report to the state with our budget is
the impact this will have
>> on uh
>> on the homeowner property the property
owner.
>> And so you know we have to give them a
whole chart from 100,000 to a million5
of the impact the six cents has. And
just as an example if your home is
assessed at 400,000
the local tax impact the municipal is
about $242
a year. If your home is assessed at a
million dollars, then you're going to
pay $65 more a year. Am I correct?
>> Yes. Yes. Y
>> So, one of the things we have to give to
the state to be accountable for is the
impact the the tax rate will have on the
homeowner at various at every $100,000
level. So, like I said, if the home is
assessed at 400,000, you're paying $242
more a year for city tax. If your home
is assessed at a million, you're paying
$65 more a year. If your home's assessed
at a half a million, you're paying $33
more a year at the 6 cents increase.
>> Yeah. Can we just stress too, that's
your tax assessment. That's not your
market value. Your home may very well be
worth a million dollars, but it may only
be assessed at 500,000 because we're
that's about where the ratio is right
now. Right.
>> So, this is real numbers based on what
your real assessment is. That's the
impact.
>> Yeah. This is their this is their number
that they're taxed on.
>> Yes. Even if your home is worth more,
you're taxed at what you're assessed at,
which you would see on the card you get.
Okay.
>> So, we have an amendment for that net
zero.
>> Any other comments?
>> Any uh any other comments for the public
from the Zoom platform
>> on the municipal budget 2026?
>> Anybody on Zoom wish to question or
comment on the municipal budget? Please
make yourself known in Zoom by raising
your hand or within the chat feature and
you will be recognized.
No. Okay.
May
>> I have a motion to add at the bench
resolution 168 to amend the budget. This
amends two line items. It's a net zero
change. There is no change to the total
budget. I have a motion.
>> I'll make that motion. Second.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langra.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creel.
>> Yes. I have a motion
to adopt the 2026-158
resolution. City of Ventner, County of
Atlantic, State of New Jersey, adopting
the 2026 municipal budget.
>> I'll make that motion as well.
>> Second.
>> A roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langra.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creable.
>> Yes. Okay. Does that satisfy your
course with the course correction?
Um, next we have uh no department head
reports but we do have capital
discussion. Speaking of uh dollars, we
have a capital discussion regarding um
a
expenditure for fire department.
>> Fire department.
>> Tom, do you want to start or
>> Well, Chief K's here to talk to you
about his need for a new fire truck. uh
substantial cost and timing becomes
critical. It takes a long time to turn
these around. Uh the process I'll let
let the chief speak, but just so that
you keep in mind the timeline. If you
agree with his request or decide to
grant his request for this, we would
then need to do a bond ordinance
introduced at the next meeting, public
hearing and adoption at the following
meeting, and then 20 days after that
before you can issue a purchase order.
We're already probably into July before
we could actually issue a purchase.
>> Okay.
>> Thank you for Thanks for coming, Chief.
I appreciate your coming in person. We
talk about this stuff every Thursday,
but I thank you for bringing it to the
table.
>> Not a problem. Uh the fire department is
looking to replace a 32year-old fire
engine. Actually about to be 33 years
old. The engine was there before I came
on the job.
>> That's amazing. It is a Yes, it's I feel
like it feels because it's going into
the shop more than it is on the line.
Um, it is well past its service life. It
did 24 years on the line as a line
apparatus running every day. Then it did
5 years as the reserve piece that went
out of town on mutual aid and now as our
deep reserve. We need to replace it to
keep our fleet healthy. We don't need
something that's broke all the time, is
nonfunctioning, and just takes up garage
space. Um, the problem with fire
apparatus, as I was discussing with uh,
director Santoro and the the mayor
earlier today, is the turnaround time is
almost two years to get it.
We're purchasing it now under a co-op,
the Houston Galveastston co-op at X
price. The longer we wait, the changes
by the federal government on the engine
raised the price of that vehicle by
$400,000 in the last four years. We have
no control over it. We we shopped it. We
got the exact vehicle we would like. It
comes in at $1.1 million.
It is a vehicle that will serve the city
for 25 to 30 years.
If we do not replace our vehicles as
they age, we wind up with vehicles that
don't work. We are inspected by the
insurance uh service organization every
seven years. They grade us on our
ability to protect the city. That's what
gives you your fire insurance rates.
Since I became chief, we've upgraded the
fleet substantially. Our rate went from
three to two. We're one of 34
municipalities in the state of New
Jersey at a level two.
Uh and took a lot to get there. I'd like
to stay there. If we do not have a
replacement for this vehicle, I'm of the
mind that we should scrap it at the end
of the year and we'll run short because
I'd rather not pay for services for a
vehicle that's in the shop more than it
is on the line. financially it doesn't
make sense to throw good money after
bad.
So I'm asking that we do the bond
ordinance to get the vehicle again.
We'll probably have it by 2028
and hopefully this thing holds out till
then
>> and by using the bond sorry
>> no just a just a followup um department
of public works mechanics uh based
report that there's no uh parts
availability compounding the issues.
They've also um kind of waved the red
flag from what I understand in terms of
uh what they can touch and what they
can't touch and their and your service
contract said the same. So,
>> our emergency vehicle service contractor
totally goes along with what public
works has said. You put a wrench on one
thing, something breaks on the other
side.
>> We just had to have the entire steering
frame replaced
>> again. 30 30 plus years of service in
saltwater underwater multiple times.
It's it's paid its dues. It's ready to
uh to put out the pasture.
>> Remind me not to have those guys in the
hospital room when I'm, you know,
>> right?
>> Give up the red flag. No, I get it. I
get I'm I'm making light of a situation.
Um understood, you know,
>> and it it is the crazy the increases
that have caused Yeah. since the last
engine we we were replaced, which
replaced the 1987 vehicle.
>> So, we're getting to where we should be
in a 10-year rotational. Our vehicle's
trickling down.
That's all I really have. You kind of
covered, you know, the maintenance guys
have told me that they No, no, no.
That's you're you're fine. Um I get it.
You know, we need to do that. But what I
was going to say is the bonding allows
us to spread this out over many years.
>> So it's not a huge impact to our budgets
coming forward. So
>> can most likely spread it over the life
of the
>> of the vehicle
>> equipment. Yeah. Right.
>> Correct.
>> Yes. Yeah. So if it's got a 25 year
life, you'll pay for it over 25 years.
>> Our maintenance program, what we have
now, keeps our vehicles healthy from 25
years. This is the oldest vehicle in the
city's fleet by probably 20 years,
but we take good care of it when we have
it, but it's very difficult to fix
something that won't stay fixed.
>> Right.
>> So, I've worked with you for about 10
years now professionally. I didn't know
you before. And what I learned was to
trust your judgment and your level of
expertise and that you're also a tough
negotiator where I've seen you
>> uh
>> I try
>> whittle down some of these prices that
you're given or um take advantage of
certain incentives.
>> Yeah. When I sit at the meetings, I'm
not buying a showpiece. I'm buying a
work truck.
>> And a work truck it is. It's it's a it's
a devel you know this is a a fully built
out community. your your calls have gone
up I think 400 calls from this time last
year.
>> Yep.
>> So it's not as though this is but at the
same point in time we've had 400 more
calls and it's not as though this is a a
luxury. This is a this is a back this is
a backup vehicle.
>> Engine 14 was put in service multiple
times this year during the snow and the
ice storms because we need to put more
vehicles on the street and luckily it
worked. But then
>> then it didn't and it just came back
from the shop. A lot of money to throw
something that sits in a garage and
breaks without moving.
>> Right. So
>> So we we need action tonight to move
this forward.
>> Yeah. Just uh you know nod of the heads
that you're in support of this and I'll
call on council tomorrow to get the
ordinance prepared for the next meeting.
>> Okay.
I also support it. support it.
>> Thank you.
>> We wanted to talk about public works,
too.
>> Yeah. Rick, you want to go through some
of the stuff? We also have some public
works equipment that we're looking at
putting in in similar bond issue. Looked
at uh dump truck with plow, $350,000,
street sweeper, 400k. We tried to get
that electric one, but the grant was not
enough money to to offset the cost to go
to electric. Um the the salespeople were
a little, you know, um how would you say
that? Uh boosting their, you know,
blowing their horn a little bit longer
than it than than it needed to be. Yes.
>> Um would have been nice to have that
vehicle if the grant tied to it would
have offset the cost to go to electric.
>> Um because it was a great vehicle, but
we're just not spending an extra
$400,000 to get an electric vehicle. Um
facility improvements, the roof, some
plumbing, HVAC,
concrete gutters. Is that can that fit
in that can fit into the bonding because
that's we need a lot. We need about 100k
in work around the city for that.
Another John Deere tractor for for
working on the beach utility truck box
type for facilities maintenance and um
laser grinding which would allow us to
do some of our own line work. Correct.
>> Instead of bringing in Delta line or
somebody like that.
>> Yeah. Okay. especially if we we relocate
and move lines. The um we presently we
only have the capability to spray over
them. The lines that are down of
rubberized epoxy paint needs to be
crowned down. And just as a note
regarding our fleet, we have 35% of our
fleet is more than 20 years old. We have
inherited the retired police department
vehicles, retrofitted them, stripped
those of emergency uh lights and we do
operate uh forced to operate uh in snow
and rain and sometimes flooding
conditions. Um our our largest big
ticket items, our dump truck. We have
our last diesel vehicle that we want to
convert to gas. it uh is extremely uh
inefficient and uh is very it pollutes
greatly and uh also the the replacement
parts and the parts that keep it up to
speed, the hydraulics um exceed 18 to
$25,000 a year or so.
>> Okay.
>> And um and we did look at the the street
sweeper that we're proposing. We demoed
an electric vehicle. This is the gas
version of that. It has vacuums. Uh it
could uh pick up sand, water. It's
quiet. Um, it has articulating, um, boom
brushes that go out, uh, 90 degrees that
can get to these, uh, right angles and
these, um, areas that, uh, the new, uh,
street improvements and handicap lane,
um, access make it hard to sweep there
because we can't get around that.
>> You saw me driving the electric one.
>> Yeah. So, we they have the same vehicle.
Gas powered, diesel or gas?
>> Uh, it's gasoline.
>> Gasoline power. So
>> imagine those bumpouts are difficult.
Yeah,
>> they are. They become hand cleaning
locations. Wow.
>> So we have to get out and actually clean
those. So if we can run the sweeper
through there, this thing has an arm
that that does that. Helps us keep the
storm drains a little cleaner. Um so
we're looking at approximately a million
two if you add up all these items. So um
that's that's where this comes through.
So, I think that's what we're asking for
is is to add that to that same bond
ordinance
>> and the sweeper. What about the dump
truck?
>> Um, I was looking at
>> one of the things that's not on this
list that that came to our attention
recently is the fuel station and the
ridiculous cost for that. So, I have
reached out to Margate to see about
possibly doing some kind of shared
service agreement, but I haven't gotten
anywhere with that yet. Let's hold off
on these until we can figure out what
we're going to do with that fuel
station. The fuel station at public
works that both the police and fire use
in our public works vehicle has far
exceeded its life. Um we've been told we
have to replace that by the inspectors.
>> Um and the number was several million
dollars to do that. So it was Yeah, it
it's it's a concrete enclosed and it
just just to remove it was
>> 40 years old.
>> Yeah.
>> It's 40 years old. not require this new
DP uh vapor caps and locks and and D
rules and the companies that install
that and retrofit those won't touch the
tank because it's it's beyond its um
certification. They will not certify the
fuel tank. And if it does it does
provide fuel, it's it's 8,000galon
tank. Now it's 4,000 diesel, 4,000 gas.
We have less diesel uh now than gas. It
would probably be 6,000 gallons. and uh
two, but it's still um a need that we
have because we we maintain and fuel all
the vehicles in the fleet and all the
small equipment and tools. So, it's it's
a critical uh critical piece of
equipment.
>> Let's reevaluate that fuel station and
then circle back with all this.
>> Yeah, we we can do a separate ordinance.
You know, you're not limited to doing
just one. So, we'll prioritize the fire
truck, get that rolling because that's
time of time's of the essence on that.
Yeah.
>> Uh, I wanted I'll work with Rick and Amy
to fine-tune some of this because we may
already have uh I know that we have
money previously budgeted for facility
improvements. I'm not sure how much is
left there that could could potentially
cover some of the HVAC and roofs and
plumbing work that needs to be done as
well as the concrete gutters. And then
the small the small equipment pieces are
not a big deal to deal with. So, we'll
we'll focus on the dump truck, the
sweeper, and and fine-tuning the cost on
that fuel station. Uh, and look to have
something for you to consider at the
next meeting, perhaps again in a
discussion like this with an eye towards
then authorizing what we're going to do.
>> Good. Thanks, Tom.
>> Thanks, Rick.
Any signs of slowing? No, it doesn't.
>> Um,
then we will have minutes from May 7th,
2026 special meeting. We were all here
for that. So, it can be approved by all
of us.
Um, we have uh no ordinance
introductions.
Uh, we'll have a public hearing
and adoption of two ordinances. One is
the um the the water usage
uh code of bender as it relates to water
usage that's uh 009 and the other is uh
uh
010
um is the same as it relates to sewers
touched on that a little bit
>> um with our rates and how and why um
then we have a number of resolutions by
consent
um 2026
uh 155 Five. This is uh just a change in
language with the same intent for a
grant uh regarding the governor's
council on substance abuse. Um that's
all there really is to that. Um and the
next is 156. Lance, would you have any
you want to make any comment on Portland
Avenue?
>> Yes, this is Portland Avenue drainage
improvements. Um Marendino, Charles
Marendino was the low bidder. Good bids
ranged from 204,000 which is what
Marendino bid on it up to a little over
300,000 but the there were three of them
clumped right around that two or four.
To me that tells me we had good biders
on it and good specs.
>> So we'll get this this awarded and get
this work done. It's it's needed.
>> We all saw that over yesterday when
everything was flooding.
>> So we're trying to get this stuff uh in
in you know off the streets and into the
bay. This is a Portland Avenue drainage
improvements not to exceed $24,000.
>> Correct.
>> Um there's a grouping of ordinances from
157,
158, 159, 160, 161, and 162.
These are all tax abatements, standard
issue tax abatements throughout the city
showing that we have um improvements
being made on our homes. Any questions
on that?
>> No. new construction part of that
project program.
>> Um then we have ordinances
163, 164, 165 and 166. These are all
liquor licenses. These are those liquor
licenses among our 15 or so with through
in the city that are planetary and
retail. These are liquor license that
were prepared for renewal. Um, if you
have one of these liquor licenses,
please make sure all your paperwork is
in by the next meeting. Um, so that we
can keep uh keep your license licenses
active. Correct.
>> Yes, please.
>> Yes, please. Um, any com comments or
questions on those?
>> No. No.
>> Um,
>> uh, one question. So, just in general,
have we had any complaints with these
from the police department? Any issues
with the licenses?
>> Um,
>> significant.
>> None significant.
>> No.
>> Good. That's all. That's, you know,
>> no, we only have the three, you know,
consumptions and those are where the the
and then No, nothing that hit my radar.
>> Okay, that's all I'm asking. It's makes
me comfortable.
>> Uh the last one is probably why we have
so many pe folks here in our uh on the
on the groom side of the court.
Nice.
>> Um this is um so this is a workshop
session. This is where uh we have a a
discussion point where the governing
body has a chance to discuss within the
sunshine law and among ourselves about
the matter before us. And then
conveniently there is a public portion
uh just a few items down where folks can
talk about anything that's on the agenda
and specifically we'll give everybody
who wants to step up to the mic time to
talk about their comments about this
ordinance. There's going to be some
discussion here among the three of us um
uh regarding adjusting recreation fees
in the city of Ventner. So there was one
recreation fee that was left open. Uh
all the other recreation fees have been
approved. Um this is regarding um the
seasonal pickle ball fee. So I I'll I'll
give you my two cents. I don't believe
we have a consensus yet and I'll leave
it to the other commissioners to find
their their level. Um I'll just give you
my my my judgment on this. Uh recreation
falls under my department. However, u
matters like this require votes. Um we
have a recreational
um board. We have a wreck board. The rec
board um does all the hiring, the
firing, and the management of our
recreation department. Um, I rely on
them. I I don't come to every meeting,
but I come to as many as as I can. Um,
we rely on their recommendations. Their
initial recommendation was $200.
I'll let that sink in. Then this is a
this is a this is the day-to-day
operating governing body for that
department. They they had further
conversations and settled on $150. That
is the recommendation that I
concur with and I'm alone in that. I
feel like many other municipalities in
the country, Vendor uses a combination
of taxpayer support and user fees to
operate specialized recreational
amenities. It's not only common to
pickle ball, it's also common to golf
and marinas and ice rinks and
public pools,
um recreational leagues and fields. Uh
in Ventner, our fishing pier seasonal fe
uh currently fees are currently $200
and for adults uh and it's for seniors
and the military it's $150. My feeling
is that we balance this affordability,
public access, and responsibility of
maintaining this highquality facility.
The current $100 pickle ball membership
fee generates approximately $56,000
with uh to a rug uh another roughly
$38,000 collected through hourly court
rates for a total revenue of about
$94,000.
the city's annual costs associated with
the courts, including staffing,
equipment, additional windscreens,
insurance, payroll taxes, administrative
oversight, Department of Public Works,
maintenance, cleaning, trash collection,
repairs, and approximately $70,000 in
annual debt service for the newly
renovated $1 million court improvements
is estimated at roughly $122,000
annually. That means that at the current
$100 membership fee, the program
operates at an at an estimated deficit
of about $28,000 per per year with the
remaining cost absorbed by the general
taxpayer. And when I say general
taxpayer, there are 559
active members last year. There may be
more. We hope there are. There are
roughly 10,000
taxpaying residents in the city. So for
6% of the residents that play pickle
ball and 94 roughly percent do not, it's
my opinion that under the proposed
under the proposed 150 membership fee,
the total revenue would increase
approximately 30 to $28,000
depending on membership and it would
bring it closer to a break even point.
This is not a profit center. None of
these none of these recreation fees are
a profit center. That's a very big
misconception. This is a small part of
the of of the the city budget. The
broader question in my opinion is
whether costs of a specialized
recreational amenity used by
approximately less than 600 individuals
should be subsidized by all taxpayers in
the 6,400 residential taxpaying
properties in Ventner, including
residents who will never use the
facility or whether users should
contribute to the majority share towards
the actual operating and long-term
capital approaching that that are that
are appro that that approaches this. Uh,
I will say that this is not an uncommon
question in other cities. Ocean City
spent a million dollars in 2024 and
their mayor asked for a $225 annual fee.
He was um uh outvoted to a $100 fee. And
respectfully, I I this is a this is in
my opinion, government should have more
conflict and more more uh more
resolution in this manner. I I I will
vote with my conscience and say that
$150 is a fair fee for an amenity like
this. I will leave it to my respected
associates here to discuss whether they
want to do something less or more or at
the same as a and and vote on it at the
at during the commission meeting. We
would pull this out of the consent and
vote on it separately. Um and that's all
I have to say about that.
>> I I'll jump in. So, I appreciate that
detail. Um,
some of it information I didn't have
before. Um, really detailed breakdown,
Tim. I appreciate that.
>> Yeah, you're welcome.
>> Um, I get that it it's not, you know, we
don't look to break even on these
things, but this would get us to that
point. Um, and up, you know, I don't
support increasing at this time because
of what we just did with the budget. I I
get exactly what you're saying. And if
we just didn't increase our our tax rate
by 6 cents, I would probably be right
with you.
And and it's a it's one of those catch
22s. I guess I'm I'm trying to use that
that phrase because we do put a lot of
money in. We just put a million dollars
into this site. It's not all finished.
We're going to finish the rest of it in
the fall. But I'm I'm hardressed to to
put that the 6% that it's it's only 6%
of our population that is using this
>> and and they're not all they're not all
residents. I I I I
>> So I think for me that that the tax
increase is not necessarily
>> it's not apples to apples but it's
something else that we're tacking on and
it and it's that's what it feels like
and that's why I I I was uncomfortable
with it.
>> Yeah.
>> But your information was was in
information was informative.
the one tandre. Um,
>> and I'm not and I and I think that in
the future I think all wreck department
fees should have a two-tier resident
non-resident uh aspect. That's something
that's done in other cities. I think
it's something that that we can do as
well.
>> I think it might be property owner
nonpropy owner
>> property owner nonpropy.
>> I think that might be a better way to
look at it. And I think you have to you
have to you have to prove that because
there is there is an argument to be made
that that that that you are increasing
taxes on folks but you and they are
already paying somewhat of the freight
for these
>> y
>> specialized but these are to me the
tipping point for me is the percentage
you have such a specialized user group
here and you have such a nonuser group
on the other side paying paying for what
is um something that um it's an amenity
It's not a need.
>> Agreed.
>> I'll I'll leave it to you if you two
want to discuss thing. I'm still
>> comments. So again, I appreciate
everything you said and and I think it's
a good practice for government to um be
able to uh for for things like this to
be able to pay for itself from fees. Um
I know the ideal is to cover costs. Um,
I understand compared to tennis, pickle
ball is a bargain, you know, compared to
what they pay for tennis. Um, Diana ran
some numbers for me and uh, based on
$150
fee, it costs anywhere from 272 a day to
play to depending on how much you play
to three something a day. So, none of
that sounds horrific, but to me, I will
tell you a 50% increase I bothers me.
>> Yeah. speaking into the microphone.
>> Did you hear nothing I said or you can't
hear just the latest?
>> Okay. So, I was saying I could
appreciate what Tim has said and it it's
a good way to operate to cover your
costs for a a um something like this to
be covered by fees. Um
and I also said compared to tennis, I
understand that pickle ball is if you
compare it to tennis is a bargain as far
as what's paid. And I had Diana run some
numbers for me. And basically this
equates to $150 fee equates to 270 a day
to three something a day, you know,
depending on whether the weather's nice
or not. But I do have um personally I do
have a problem with a 50% increase.
That's what bothers me about this that
it's a 50% increase. A1 to $150 is a 50%
increase. and um
I would be amendable to something less
something in the neighborhood of $ 110
or $120 from 100 and um for us to look
at this every year so that there's
incremental small increases perhaps
every year and not one big increase in
one year. Um so that's that's what I
would be in favor of. Um so I know we're
not all on the same page on this,
>> right? We just need to uh address a add
add it to the resolution. If the two of
you have a number that you want to
insert, it would become part of the
resolution at the end uh during the
during the meeting. So I I I appreciate
what you said and thank you. I think
there's also
>> thing sadly I didn't get to the beach
one time last year, but I'm paying for
that. There's no way beach tags pay for
beach maintenance, beach monitoring,
lifeguards. I know you look at that a
little differently to this, but
>> I look at it as the same. We are not
covering our beach fees with beach tags.
There's no way in hell we could ever do
that without charging a fortune.
>> I think there are similarities, but I
think the the beach and the and the and
the activities that go on in the beach
are part of the city's identity. It's
part of our economy. It's part of our
it's it's a wider use and it's a it's
part of we're we're really are a a
resort. This is a specific lean, a
specific channel. I don't think it's I
don't I think that maybe we are higher
than or we are at the high end of the
scale today, but we are not necessarily
going to be at the high end of the scale
a year from now or two years from now
when all the other high use. This is a
high use facility. It's going to require
maintenance and all the other facilities
in Ocean City and and Sea Aisle, they're
they're all going to require the same $1
million repairs that we are absorbing
this year. And and I like I said, I I
respect your opinions. If you if you
choose to do I heard 1101 120 if you
decide to make that number, you have the
ability to vote two against one. And and
that's and that's part of the process.
So the um we we would just need to know
what that that amount is.
>> We did get we got some comparables,
right? Uh Brigadine's 120, Margates 100,
Ocean City's 100, Sea Isle is nonpropy
and property owner 150 and 100. And by
the way, we've always looked at that,
but we had the legal opinion that we
couldn't do that in prior years. So now
I'm hearing we can do something like
that. So it's not like we never
>> thought to do that. It's just that our
attorney at the time always said, "You
can't have a two-tier rate."
>> Yeah.
>> Is that something we can Can we do
something like that for non for property
owners and non-propy owners? Can you
split fees for that?
>> That that that's a no. That look was a
no.
>> Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And and my my reason for pumping the
brakes on that for this session is that
I wouldn't like I I think you have to do
it across the board.
>> I wouldn't do it now. Yeah, I agree with
I wouldn't do it tonight.
>> Looking at the rec department
saying she's got
>> uh dozens and dozens of camps and
classes and that that have that are
affected by residents and non-residents
because we grow from 10,000 to 30,000
people. So that is a factor and I think
you'd have to do it uh across the board
>> across the board. We're all you have to
have some type of percentage that would
apply towards that.
>> That would be something we could look at
and cat give cat time to
>> Yeah. Just a question for my for my
curiosity. Is is there a daily fee you
can pay? Like if somebody wanted to come
from Kate May and just play for a day.
There is a daily fee.
>> Okay.
>> So the JCC is 149. Pickle juice wow is
250 for the summer season
>> and Pro Shop that is 29. Pro Shop's 299.
Pickle juice for the summer season's 250
and JCC is 149.
>> What are you saying?
We're picking on you a little bit.
Sorry.
>> You always pick on me.
>> So, yeah, there's there's there's
there's precedent for for we're on the
top end of that scale. I I acknowledge
that. Um but I again I think I said I
said I said what I I said what I said.
>> I think I you know hearing both of those
both of your comments
I could be I could lean towards a
graduated increase. Like I said 50% is a
lot in one year. I I think the 120 is
something I could go with at this point.
And then we reevaluate next year and see
where we are. See if we can do different
charges for different folks and and and
that aspect. Folks that are already
paying for, you know, the the bonding,
excuse me, that we just did to do the
improvements to the site.
>> We can look at senior rates. I know we
can do something like that. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Can I make a comment if you don't
mind, please?
I I I think I think there's a danger in
focusing too much on percentages and
uh numbers without analyzing the actual
impact of what that means. So going back
to the budget for example when you talk
about a 6 cent tax increase 6 cents here
might be 1 cent somewhere else. So it's
not fair to compare tax rates they
become meaningless. They're not an
applesto apples comparison. So, the
analysis that Maria provided showing the
actual impact to people, I think, is is
the key. Is $20 a month too much to ask
people to pay for additional taxes to
cover the services that they're used to
having? And that's what that six cents
translates to. In this case, where
you're talking about going from $100, a
nominal fee, to 150. Yes, it's a 50%
increase, but it's $50. And for a
threemonth season, that's $16 a month or
about $4 a day that we're asking people
to pay to help defay the cost of running
that top-notch facility. So, I
personally don't think that there's too
many people in this room or in this city
that can't afford another $4 a day to
enjoy a hobby that they've taken up and
that they've committed to. And you know,
I commend everybody and hope they do
enjoy the new facility, but really $4 a
day, folks. Come on.
>> All right,
>> Tom, you're absolutely right. I just
can't do it. That's just how I feel. But
you're absolutely right.
>> All right. So, do you want to amend the
resolution to be 120 from 150 to 120? Is
that what you're saying?
>> I I could go with that. Yeah. But
that'll come out of the consent agenda
and we'll have a public discussion on it
in the next right
>> when we get to the when we get to the
committee meeting when we get to the
actual meeting it'll come out of the
consent agenda and we will have a
separate vote on resolution 167. We're
amending that resolution to adjust
recreational fees to be voted on in the
regular meeting at $120. It's the
All
right.
So,
next we have we'll have approval of
bills and payroll. We'll have uh safety.
Um wait a minute. Did I lose my place
here? Put something up here.
>> Sorry. Thank you.
>> Pardon me for just a second.
Um,
>> It's right there on the top.
>> Yeah. So, um, so that is the we're
removing that. Um, we'll have approval
of bills and payroll. We'll have
announcements and safety reports,
commissioner comments, and public
comments. And then this then we'll we'll
switch to the um where's the rest of the
where's we do public comment now on on
items on the agenda. Yeah.
>> Wrong number.
>> Letter Q.
>> Yeah. You like mine? There you go.
>> Yeah. Mine mine goes down. I'm down to
CC here. Oh,
>> I took it off. I'm sorry.
>> Right. That it's in the same bar. So,
yeah. So, we'll have 167 as I mentioned.
Uh so, at this point, um uh we'll have
public portion. Uh we can have folks
come to the
to the microphone, state your name and
address. you can discuss anything uh
regarding the workshop items that we've
discussed so far. Um may I have a motion
to open public portion? So moved. Have
>> a second.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. Lisa.
>> Langria.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creable.
>> Yes. Thank you.
>> State your name.
>> Tim Cryer. Ventner City. Uh I I read
somewhere that this rec this came from
the recreation commission.
>> That's right.
>> Okay. They said they re did they have
those figures?
>> Yes.
>> So when you when they made the
recommendation,
>> our president is here and she does.
She's nodding yes. And I believe they
did. We had some discussions on it, but
they did have those numbers. They and
like I said, they recommended $200 as a
yearly fee based on their day-to-day and
their experience and recommended and
then felt as though that was doubling it
would be too much and came to 150 as
their recommendation.
>> Okay. And then again, it's just my
opinion since you're pulling it out of
the consent agenda and you have so many
people here. I just wish you would have
heard from them before you made a final
decision on what the dollar amount was
going to be that to hear from the people
that were actually going to have
>> Hasn't been voted on. Hasn't been voted
on, but I appreciate
>> No, but you decided that you were going
to put a $120 figure on it.
>> And I just wish before you made that
determination, you would have listened
to the public. Just my opinion. you you
don't have to agree with it.
>> Thank you for moving on.
>> Okay. So, I'm just going to take a few
minutes because I wrote all this stuff
down even though now you've discussed
all this other information. I'd like to
read what I wrote.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Mayor, commissioner, city
officials. Um, thanks. Oh, Pat Harrian,
Ventner Heights. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak on behalf of the
Ventner pickle ball community. As my
background is, I brought pickle ball,
the specialized sport, to Ventner in
2016.
The people on the board did not know
what pickle ball was. I brought a
paddle. I brought a ball. I showed them.
I gave them the de the the dimensions of
what of what a court looks like. And we
began, right? And we started with 25
members was free at that time and
everybody came out to play. And I kept
saying to Jerry Thomas, if you put
another court in, more people will come.
And sure enough, more people came. And
then we started our organization, which
I'm president of, and I'm also an
ambassador for the United States pickle
ball community. Uh so when we started
our ventner pickle ball advisory
committee, we were at that time advising
give and take back and forth. I would go
to meetings. I'd hear what they'd have
to say. I'd bring it back to the
population. I'd get information and I'd
go back and we'd land on some solutions
to whatever our, you know, challenges
were. But this didn't get out there at
all. There was no uh discussion about
it. there was no invite to come and and
discuss it. I get it. It's a city
budget. It's a recreational line, but I
felt like we were um held out of any of
that discussion. As Tim said, we weren't
asked for input at all. So, one of the
things that I I wanted to say was that,
you know, we have
different than maybe some of the other
sports, we have always been partners
with the city. We have given back to the
city, donated to the city from the
pickle ball community. We have hundreds
of volunteer hours where we put in free
instructions to the city employees and
the youth summer camps program. Um, we
have six memorialized benches that we
paid for, six awnings for shade, the
six-foot fence that goes down the middle
of the uh main court, paddle racks for
all the courts.
um shadow box outside of the office for
announcements, a canopy for the veterary
court staff so they're not in the sun.
Um we've donated uh to the police and
the fire benevolent funds. We've also
donated two years in a row now $1,500 a
year to the special events program. So I
feel like we we did our part in doing
that and we want to continue to do that.
That's why we want to be partners. Um
the the the fee going to $150 for an
eight-week program does seem unfair.
There are weekends with tournaments for
funky pickle and other things that we
may be locked out of that. Yeah, we
could pay for it because that's a
for-profit organization, but it's not
something that we do on a daily basis
and we can only play five days a week.
That's all we can reserve. Can't play
seven days a week. So, it's an 8week
program at $150, which was the proposed
rate. A small fee would be
understandable. A small increase. Um,
given the the recognizing of the hard
work and the dedication, the grant
monies that put into revitalizing that
whole complex, it's beautiful. We've
been playing there. It's beautiful and
we love it. And it's one of the best.
People tell me wherever I go, if I go to
Ocean City, if I go to Sea, they say to
me, "Oh, your courts are beautiful.
They're really Yes, they were. Now
they're even nicer because they've been
redone. So, we're asking to reconsider
that 150. And I'm proposing that we keep
residents at $75, non-residents at 125.
I think that's a a fair bargain. I get
what you're saying, but we're not asking
tennis to pay that much more. We're not
asking basketball to pay anything.
um we're not asking volleyball to
increase every member that plays
volleyball, you know, a higher fee. So,
it kind of seems unfair given that we
are the specialized sport and it is a
hobby and we do love it.
>> Thank you.
>> You know, one thing I didn't ask, how
long has the fee been $100? When did we
when did it start?
>> 75 and then it went to 100 and now 150
proposed.
>> So,
>> you are a great community. I I see that
in uh you know there you know the sport
communities that I'm in that there's
much more organized you're than a lot of
other communities you you uh in a lot of
ways self um you know self-govern in a
lot of ways but we and so I appreciate
your comments and I agree.
>> Yeah I mean that's what we try to do. We
try to self-govern people you know they
come and say hey Pat hey Bill who you
know they ask us questions and you know
if I have a question I I take it to the
board. I mean, Diane knows I've been
there and you know, I've been there. So,
uh, you know, I want to be involved and
we want to continue to give back. We
just want with, you know, with the taxes
that we already pay and the increases
coming down, just give us a fair a fair
shot at a a fair price.
>> Thank you,
>> so I I don't know if you could hear us
earlier. We did ask our attorney to look
at if we can do a property owner versus
a non-propy owner fee, right? We can't
do it this year, but she will take a
look at the law and see if it's
something that's allowed. We've always
been told in the past legally you cannot
do that.
>> Why can we not do it this year?
>> It there's not enough time to do it.
>> We we has to determine whether we're
allowed to do it.
>> It would have to be done across all
wreck
>> wreck programs. Can't just so single out
one program. You'd have to do it against
all of them.
>> Okay. Um
>> and legally we don't know if we can do
it. So she has to investigate that.
>> Is that you have to do that? Are we
talking about court reserve or are we
talking about
>> a a pro a tax a property tax owner
versus a nonproperty tax owner rate?
>> Okay. Yeah. Well then maybe we could do
um seniors,
you know, if you can't do that this
year. Um I think court reserve can
handle a discount for senior members and
non senior members up to 60. I mean, I
know that's what Brigotine is doing.
>> Mhm.
>> So, something that, you know, is a
little bit more palatable in an
increase.
>> Did either of you want to change your
comments based on so far?
>> Do you want to leave seniors at 100?
>> Yes,
>> I'd be fine with that.
>> All right. Thank you.
>> Thanks.
>> Oh, hi, Beth Torsiello, uh, Betner.
Uh, building on what you know Pat said
about um
you can't you can't do it until next
year. Um, but take into consideration
that
the residents here
not going to wear this correctly. The
residents here have to you have to get
your phone out and you have to push that
button at 7 o'clock. we have to compete
to get a spot. So, you not only are
charging or trying to charge $150,
uh you are no guarantee of getting on
the court. I think that's really totally
unfair.
Uh in within 15 seconds, the sessions
fill and so here you've paid the $150
and you are not guaranteed a spot. So, I
think you should take that cons into
consideration. And if you have to wait
until next year to do this, then why
don't you just leave the fee at $100?
And if there's some way to give veterina
residents access to getting on the
courts first, uh, that would be helpful
as well because, you know, like I said,
7 o'clock, does everybody know this? 7
o'clock, everybody stops what they're
doing and has to hit the button and
within 15 seconds it's filled.
>> Okay? And that's I mean at $150 that's
not fair to not be guaranteed. I pay for
my beach badge. I don't go on to the
beach and then they say, "Nope, sorry.
You know, you didn't get in on time."
And I do pay um for uh school taxes. I
pay for, you know, different things that
I don't use. And I actually don't go on
the beach. I walk the boardwalks. I
don't go on the beach. So, you know, I
think it's fair, you know, for us to
have some type of, you know, advantage
to use our facilities.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> I I' I've seen it. I've heard it that
there's that the court reservation I've
seen people stop eating dinner and
>> get on their reservation. I've seen them
get up from a table so they could get in
sooner. I don't know if there's a I I I
imagine things like um like Ticatron
when you try to get a concert that's
highly popular and then and those things
I I imagine there may be a way to wire
it so that there could be maybe a
percentage. I I would I would hesitate
to say that all that you could allow uh
residents only a certain period of time
and then it wouldn't be available to all
the people that were played. But I could
imagine that there might be a uh there
might be a way to wire it so that
there'll be an early reservation period
for a percent for residents at at a
percentage, you know, a percentage of
slots. And after that's after that time
is up or that amount is done. And I'm
just guessing that that it could be an
open um it could be an open, you know,
open reservation. So that's something
that again that's something that's going
to have to be wired and it's going to
have to be vetted.
I mean, you know, Right.
>> Progress one one one step at a time.
Yep. Did you have something you want to
say, sir?
>> My name is Lance Conn. I live at 103
North Wyoming Avenue. I've been playing
pickle ball in Ventner for eight years
now. Um,
since they open, since we've had courts,
I've been playing there for eight years.
There's been other public courts that
opened up in this area.
I see us losing some people to some of
these other locations.
Also, a lot of people, as they were
saying, are frustrated at this 7:00
thing where you you can get locked out
in a second. Some of those people have
just joined Pickle Juice and Pro Shop
and not playing a Ventner.
I look at it this way. Um, I have
Margate, it's $100. I have Ocean City,
it's $100.
So I look at this when I come to Ventner
I have to find a parking spot which
takes time. I have now been cut down
from seven days and I play seven days to
five days.
And I just think the $150
when everybody else is $100. Everybody
has the same cost that we have
it. For me personally,
Margate is this close to my house.
They're closer
and their courts are in great condition.
What is my my incentive? My only
incentive playing in veterary is because
we have the best people in the world to
play with. That's what we have going for
ourselves. And I hate to see us, you
know, you're talking about we raised
$150, we're going to raise this much
more money. But that being said, how
about the people who are frustrated and
say, I'm just going to play in Margate.
So you will probably lose 50 people. So
the money you're making up and
overcharging, you're going to lose
probably the back end. Thank you very
much for the time. Thank you.
>> Say
>> yeah.
>> Just to be clear right now that I hear a
lot of people saying 150. Right now the
the amendment is potentially is going to
be adjusted to to 120. Right. So that's
that's an amendment that's on the table
right now. And I think there's some
discussion about
>> 150 is off the table.
>> Is off the table. Right. So, it's 120 at
this point to be voted on.
>> All right. Sorry to interrupt you.
>> Um, Barbara Lombardo, Newark Avenue,
Ventner. Um, you're already giving a
discount to the fishing pier, which I
don't use, and I don't know how many
people in Ventner actually use that, but
why can't you now give a senior
discount?
>> That's what we the topic that just
brought up. So,
>> yeah, but you're you keep putting
everything off to other years. And last
year we even brought up the resident
thing to the recreation department and
you know to give residents a discount
and that didn't go anywhere. But why not
now a senior discount? You're already
doing it.
>> We had the legal opinion for years that
we cannot do a a property owner versus
non-property owner which you're
referring to as a resident versus
non-resident. Right. We are now going
ask our new attorney to look at that.
>> But you can do a senior discount now
because you're already doing it. Yes, we
do that on the pier. Do we do that on
the pier? We do a veteran too, do we?
>> We do it. We know we do a a senior uh
>> and we have that on the table right now.
>> Seniors 150
>> for this year. Yes.
>> For seniors and 200 for adults. So
>> So what I'm sorry, what was that?
>> The Well, that's at the pier. We do do a
discount for seniors and there's a
discussion here now that we would do 100
for seniors and 120 for adults.
>> Thank you. Nonenior.
>> Non seniors. Non seniors.
And then and then just to clarify, there
is now a city sele that has done it for
a year. So there is going to be some
groundwork that we can discuss with
their solicitor to find out what what if
any push back they had. Um Diane, would
you like to
a round of applause for Diane?
>> Diane Burkeback 3 North Cambridge Avenue
Ventner. um as a member of the
recreation board. Uh the recreation
board are is made up of residents that
have been appointed and volunteer their
time to
uh balance between
uh looking at the best interest of the
public, looking at the best interest of
the city and uh looking at the use of
the city facilities.
With that in mind, our goal is to
provide activities for all citizens,
youth, middle a teenagers, seniors,
adults. Um, but looking at the big
picture, not just a tunnel vision on one
particular interest. Um, Patty, I hate
to tell you, but uh I taught pickle ball
at the old high school in 200. told me
that that night when I
>> Yes. So,
>> but I brought it in.
>> Okay.
I didn't have ventner students, I guess.
Anyway, um
the recreation board recom I'll speak to
a couple other things that you keep
coming up and asking the same question
over and over again. Uh, as far as can
we have an earlier time for veterary
residents,
the program that the pickle ball group
uses, court reserve, does not have that
capability. We looked into it and uh, by
the way, the uh, court reserve costs
over $1,000 a year, whereas the city
does not have to pay uh, a program uh,
computer program for basketball. They
don't have to pay for a program for
volleyball. They don't have to provide a
computer program for little league
baseball, softball,
um pirates football. So, we're looking
at uh you know, when you want to compare
apples to apples, this is a specialty
that requires more expenditure.
We
the city needs to provide employees on a
regular basis because of the conflicts
that arise at the pickle ball courts.
And this year since the there are more
courts and more availability and um when
you're talking about finances,
we're forgetting that it's free play
from 12 to 4:00.
Granted, every day people don't want to
play from 4:00 to 12, but there's a lot
of days that that time is not bad and
you can go down and get a group and play
for free. So, you're 150, 125, whatever.
um to offset the expenditures that
the taxpayers
are subsidizing.
I'm on the rec board. I like a lot of
activity, but I don't play pickle ball,
but my taxes are still going to the
people that do. So, the fee that we
recommended, and I'm speaking for the
entire recreation board, um we looked at
all the all angles of this. We looked at
how much it costs to run baseball, the
use of the fields, um how much it costs
to have the volleyball on the beach and
the volleyball in the school, and how
much we have to pay. So all of those uh
expenditures for all those activities
were taken into consideration
and you know again
it costs a lot of money to run the
pickle ball courts. It's also creates a
lot of issues. We ask people not to put
their bikes on the fence that it ruins
the fence but then you have to have
somebody to come around and argue with
somebody that says oh you got all that
money I can just do whatever I want.
Tell them to buy a new fence. So that's
your clientele.
>> Oh yes, they do.
>> And they did.
>> They did.
>> No more.
>> Okay.
>> With the with the bike racks down.
>> And I was there when they did.
>> The bike.
>> We can Excuse me. Excuse me. I'm going
to have to call order here. It's not a
conversation between the two between
these groups. If you can direct your
attention. If you'd like to say
something, come up to the mic, state
your name and address, and speak. Right
now, the president of the recreation
board is speaking. And I I understand
you have a reaction to that, but if you
could just continue, I appreciate your
>> So anyway, we we we do stand by our
recommendation with the uh amount of
money that's expended and looking at all
the facilities and all the activities
that are run through the through the
city. Um which I think enhances our um
community. It enhances uh activities
especially for our youth and we try to
make sure that the youth sports are as
um I don't want to say cheap but as less
expensive so that our children can be
involved in activities and if they have
to be subsidized a little bit by adults
that that philosophy is there as well.
So, thank you for all your consideration
and looking at all the angles and uh
offer you support.
>> Thanks, D.
>> We don't have a ski slope here, right,
with those prices,
>> right? Thank you, Diane. And I
appreciate everything that the rec board
does. I know it's um I know it's a lot a
lot of time.
>> Yeah, Diane, thank you very much for all
all your work and all the work of the
committee. You know, you obviously you
put a lot of time into this, everything
that you looked at. I'm sorry that we're
not there, but I'm hoping to find a
balance.
>> Sports camp that goes on for all the
kids, the the additional uh marine
science camps that go on board. These
are all things that um that are that are
great programs.
>> Uh Barbara Lombardo again, um Vetner, I
just want to say Pickleball doesn't need
software, doesn't need court reserve.
All the other town, um Egg Harbor,
Galloway, Long Beach Island, they don't
use software.
People just go put paddles up and they
play. So, Benter's making a lot of money
by doing court reserve and and doing it
this way, but you don't have to have
software to play pickle ball.
>> How How is Benner making a lot of money
off of
>> Well, I mean, they're making money
because now you're charging us whatever
you're going to charge us and you're,
you know, we're limited, but you're
making money whereas we could just go
there.
>> You heard the mayor talk about what it
costs us for those courts, correct?
>> Yeah. This is Yeah. But it cost the
other
>> they're not making money. No making
money on
>> pick. But the other towns that don't use
the software and people just go and play
>> if Yeah.
>> They're not getting anything.
>> I understand there's a two different
devices. I just would characterize
making money as actually
>> well you're making more than G
>> more than the cost,
>> right? But you're making more than the
other towns that don't run software and
don't run a program for two months. So I
just wanted to say that we don't
necessarily have to have software
playable.
you have reserve is is for control over
it. You can't have 600 people that buy
memberships all showing up at the same
time.
>> Correct.
>> 559 people showing up with a paddle.
>> Well, they do it in other towns.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you.
Anybody else in the committ commission
chambers would like to speak on pickle
ball?
>> My name is Barbara Miller Balm. I live
on Bentner Avenue in in Benner.
>> Okay. I just want to remark that I've
been part of many organizations who use
Signup Genius. Signup Genius is free.
You don't I've been doing it for Maang.
I've done it for pickle ball with uh uh
there's a place in Silver's Point. So,
it's free if you want to go to Sunf
Genius. It would serve the same purpose.
>> Thanks. Thanks. We use it for the rowing
club.
>> Anyone else in the community?
>> Yeah.
>> Uh my name is Chris Brennan. I live in
Ventner. Um I feel as if the real issue
here is the fact that basically a fee
was increased with really not much
communication and I think that's
probably why you guys got a tremendous
amount of push back. But also what I'm
hearing that Pat had shared with us is
that maybe um some of the ad original
advisory committee is maybe not included
in on some of this decision making. I
don't know if that's accurate or not.
Sounds as if it is. And I think a lot of
this would have been avoided if you guys
had communicated with the advisory
committee and then a lot of people
really trust Pat and Bill and some of
this would have been avoided. So I would
almost think going forward that would be
a good bridge to cross.
>> Okay.
>> And that's all I have to say.
>> Thank you.
>> Anybody else in the commission chambers?
wish to speak on ordinance.
>> I know there's somebody in
>> 17 167 hearing hearing any not hearing
anyone. Is there anyone in the zoom
platform with a hand raised? Looks like
a Jack Fineberg.
>> Yes, Mr. Fineberg first and then Mr.
Rogers would be next after that. So,
>> okay. Thank you.
>> Mr. Fineberg, you can unmute. You
>> speak up if you could speak on your mic
so everyone can hear you, please.
>> Can you hear me?
>> That's better. Yes,
>> at this point. Okay. Sorry for the
confusion. Um, first off, I am a
longtime Ventner resident. I currently
reside at 109 South Sophomore Avenue.
>> Please speak a little please speak a
little slower, sir.
>> Okay. Uh, 109 South Sophomore Avenue,
Ventner. Proudly a alumni of the Ventner
pirate organization. Um, I'm also a
significant uh person involved with
pickle ball. I am currently a member of
the governing body of pickle ball. I
attempted to
be involved in your reconstruction and
financing, all of which was just turned
away by the city and the various people
I spoke to. Right now, there's an income
stream that's very possible within your
organization that has been rejected. And
at the end of last year, I presented to
the rec board a plan where the veteran
pickle ball advisory committee could run
a tournament uh over a selective weekend
as a grand opening tournament for the
courts that would have raised somewhere
between 10 and $20,000. That tournament
could also be run on a yearly basis to
provide a revenue stream. Uh the last
time we ran it, uh we were able to
donate $10,000 to the Children's
Hospital of Philadelphia and reserve
$10,000 that was used for various
programs along the city. Had there been
any cooperation with the Vetner uh board
with the uh Vetner pickle ball advisory
committee, that revenue source could
have been selected and instead a
for-profit organization was given uh the
the proposed date which locked us out of
uh an appropriate date uh to provide
services to provide the tournament. And
additionally, the uh special events
committee uh blocked a summer weekend
for again a for-profit organization when
again that particular time frame could
have been used for the Vetner uh
pickball organization to run a
tournament for the benefit of the city.
So there are there are alternate sources
of revenue that the city could use that
have been ignored and I just wanted to
bring that to the commission's
attention.
>> Okay. Thank you. If you want to bring
those to my attention, I can talk to the
rec department again about them. If
you've already brought them up to the
wreck, we have a good um we can we can
discuss them later. I appreciate it.
>> Thank you, Mr. Fber. Anyone else in the
Zoom platform that wishes to speak on
>> Mr. Rogers is next
>> 167
>> and I'll recap it at the end here.
>> Mr. Rogers.
>> Paul.
>> Mr. Rogers.
>> Give him a few more minutes. Sometimes
>> uh that that should do it. Can you hear
me now?
>> Yes, sir.
>> Uh thank you very much. First of all, I
I want to
>> uh 111 South Cambridge.
>> Thank you.
and because I am an apartment lei, I'd
like people to know there's a difference
between resident, non-resident. So, if
we do consider non-residents
um different than residents, I'd
appreciate that. But that's my own
issue. But I just want to say one of the
fondest things that Vendor does is
pickle ball. You mentioned a number of
600 people that have come to Vener
because of it. Uh there's not another
sport that wreck board or anybody
anybody in the United States plays
that's so inclusive. I guarantee anybody
there who hasn't played pickle ball at
vendor tonight in the room if they went
there and played with the people Lance
Con mentioned you'd have fun and you'd
be welcomed in a community and it's been
growing from how Pat pointed out 20
people five people to now 600. Now that
you have more courts and we have orderly
fashion to do things the way they use
the rep department functions, you will
have more and people do say fond and
great things about vendor because of
vendor pickle ball. So I think it's fair
to have a fee. I kind of agree with
Commissioner Mento about maybe the sh
the sticker shock of 50% increases is
very tough to take and other local
Atlantic county se uh sea communities
offer
more expensive pickle ball expenditures
for free. So there is that too. So it's
what do you serve? And one more point
I'll make it that this does really mean
most of the players that are being
charged are paying for the 8week for the
summer of which one was given away to
Funky Pickle without anybody's that I
think that is a good discussion item
that Jack brought up because that's the
fee is not really considered an annual
fee in most people's mind. It's the
people coming down in the summer to play
with their friends on Saturday and
Sunday. And now we have an organized
fashion that uses court reserve, which
is a challenge to get in and play when
you want to play. Yes, you can play in
the afternoon. I'm glad you brought that
up, but you can't play with the people
you want to play with because we don't
have enough capacity. That will be
relieved a bit by adding the three
courts. But as the pickle ball use
grows, many people are moving to vendor
or coming to vendor to do to enjoy that.
So thank you for supporting it. Thank
you for making the course great because
we think they are and I think that
you'll have continued growth and people
speaking kindly of ventner how we are
doing it. So that's all I had to say.
Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um,
>> anybody else in Zoom
>> comment
>> wants to comment?
>> No,
>> just one thing.
>> Just one thing.
>> We're out of room.
>> Uh, Bill Saban, Vetner, Lafayette
Avenue. I am on the veterary advisory
committee. Just a a quick synopsis. Once
this all gets done, when will Court
Reserve be open
>> so people can sign up?
>> Tomorrow. tomorrow.
>> Okay. So that we can put that out. That
court reserve will be open tomorrow
to play on what day of the weekend
you're going to have a ribbon cutting.
Is that correct?
>> Uh yeah.
>> So that means Saturday would be out or
>> No.
>> No. It'll all be court reserve will
operate.
>> It's open now. So we're just going to
stand there and cut a ribbon. We're not
>> I mean
>> we're not going to even ask people to
stop playing. I want to just cut ribbon
and let people keep playing.
We we need
>> there's $150 ticket price for the
>> lot. So the Hey,
>> I It's a great place. We We love it
there. We want to continue it on. Uh Pat
has been absolutely fabulous. Brought
this all here and about. If it wasn't
for Pat, we wouldn't be having a
discussion like this. So, uh that plaque
should be made for her at the ribbon
cutting. That's for sure. So, uh, just
like to know when it opens, what would
be the first day we can sign up for?
That's what people are going to want to
know. If you open it on tonight or
tomorrow morning, is it 3 days in
advance?
>> So, that would be Friday. So, it would
be Saturday. So, we we wouldn't be able
to be on court reserve until Monday. So,
Saturday and Sunday would just be free
open play. We'll pass that. I'm going to
That's above my pay grade. I'm going to
pass that on to Diana.
>> Don't leave. You'll figure it out.
>> We might have an answer by the end of
today, but
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> All right. Anybody else have anything to
offer for the good of the order
regarding
>> ordinance number 167?
>> Just one quick question. If this is
going to Beth Torsello from Vetner, um
if this is going to open, uh what will
the price be?
>> That's what we're going to vote on in a
minute. Okay. Stay tuned.
We're gonna going once right now. So,
anybody else on the Zoom platform before
we close this for a recap?
So, there's a couple things on the table
right now. One is to keep the fee for
seniors, a new a new stage for seniors
at the original 100. And then uh a
blanket fee like I said adults that's
what we call them and others for 120
>> right
>> and that would be the amendment to the
resolution if you choose I still
>> support
>> thoughts on the senior any thoughts on
that or we do it for for beach badges we
do it for the fish and pier
>> support that
>> okay I I could agree with that as well
>> just thinking about the
hearing And for seniors,
>> I keep it at 100 and 120. That's where
that's where I'm I should speaking to
the mic. I'm sorry. Um what we're
discussing is the senior fee staying at
100 and the fee increase for anybody
else is is 120.
>> Correct.
>> I have an answer to that to the
question.
>> We have an answer to the question. And
we have another comment from the from
the president of the recreation
department, Diane. If you're signing up
on court re when you pay your beach fee,
you go in and you say how old you are.
When you go to the fishing pier, you go
in and say, "I'm a senior or I'm not a
senior." On court reserve, I don't know
that you have that capability to
differentiate and differentiate a price
if it's a computer,
>> right?
>> Unless you manually walk into recoort.
>> In in the case of the beach badges, they
have to come in
Yeah,
>> this will be great. We'll spend some
time on this too.
>> Another question for Diana.
>> Diana? Yes.
>> Yeah. The the answer to the question is
that uh we'll
open court reserve tomorrow and you'll
be able to play Saturday morning. The
three days is only how early you can
reserve. You can reserve as soon as it
opens for active play.
>> So it'll populate sooner than then it'll
populate for Saturday.
>> Right.
>> So when that to answer your question,
it'll open tonight.
>> No,
>> tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Oh,
tomorrow's Friday, right?
>> The meeting's over. I'll let Diana know
to get her and Sarah
>> Saturday you'd be able to play.
>> So the weather is good today. The courts
are probably dry today. Tomorrow will
probably be a good free day play. So,
you know, tomorrow will be likely all
free and then at the by the end of the
day or while you're on the courts, the
court reserve may become live for
reservation.
>> Well, I'm going I'm going to ask for
some patience on the issue about seniors
as to a what's the cut off? Is it 62? Is
it 65? What's going to be? And secondly,
I don't know off the top of my head
where the court reserve has the ability
of differentiating. So, we will need to
know that. So, if you do the resolution,
I'm gonna ask that you do it approve it
contingent on what those are being able
to do it.
>> Okay. I'm good.
>> I I think we should leave it uh make it
the same as beach badges, which is 65,
right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Beach badges are 65 for seniors.
So, I think we should do the same thing.
>> 62. That's why I
>> Oh, really? Yeah. Okay.
>> I don't know why.
>> Why are they 62?
>> I don't know.
>> I I guess there was some very
influential 62y old fisherman at one
time.
Can we sort of do what do we call the
others? Adult or versus child or just
players?
>> Players.
>> We call them masters and growing. Should
we say math pick or masters? Because
>> I'm not sure who's in charge of court
reserve, but brigotine absolutely has
from uh up to age 60, you pay one fee.
Over 60, you pay your senior rate. So,
court reserve can do it. I guess we'd
have to coordinate with the
representative. Ask for everybody's
patience as we work through that.
>> Well, the person who is um taking care
of it is watching the meeting, so she
heard your comments.
>> Okay,
>> great. She's pro she's very efficient.
Any other? So for the good of the order
at this point we have a amendment to the
resolution 167 that calls for seniors at
the age of 65 to be $100 contingent on
the ability of court reserve to
accommodate that and players to be at
$120. Does that make does that
>> Yep. Does that make sense? Okay.
All right.
Where am I?
Close. So, close public portion. Any
other comments before we close public
portion?
>> Yeah, I I just wanted to ask I know
that, you know, this is uh the
revitalization is phase one and I guess
there's more to come, you know, down in
the fall. But we're wondering about the
continuation of the screens and the
paddle racks and the awning. I don't
know,
>> you know, are they all going to be t
taken care of and put up? We've ordered
um windcreens.
>> Okay.
>> Got a we were we originally posted
custom screens that were
>> you can get around
>> panels there almost 75 of them $29,000
worth of so now we're putting in an
alternative much cheaper $4,000
dribbling in now. So
>> we'll have those up.
>> We installed temporary um racks today.
>> Yeah, they were put up today. There are
the metal ones, but the original wood
ones we bought material to construct. We
do the ones that you like and I'll
myself from
>> No, no, no. This is you're going to have
to come up here again. It's not a
conversation between you and Mr. Santo.
You talked through the chair.
>> Your name, sir?
>> Click Lance Cone, 103 North Wyoming
Avenue.
>> Your question? My question is so we
won't start we'll sign up for court
reserve but we won't sign up the reserve
courts until that next Friday, Saturday
and Sunday. Is that the way it's going
to be?
>> No, I don't think you were following
along. The court reserve is after the
after the vote the date the time that
the amount will be set and starting
tomorrow court reserve will be open. The
first available courts will be available
on Saturday. Right.
>> And open reserve tomorrow.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Oh, okay. I missed that. Sorry.
>> But that that that's for signing up for
Betner, right? That's when you paid
$100.
>> That's for paying your $1,000 membership
fees
>> and reserving your court time.
>> The same the whatever you normally do
that will be available to you tomorrow.
>> So, it's not like a three-day.
>> No. Okay.
>> Folks are not paying attention. Mark Tom
through that and settle. So, just to
update on the rest of the improvements
to the courts. So, we weren't able to
get the the landscape area, that brick
area that we're going to redo all that.
There's going to be a pavilion built
closer to the building there, 24x 24
covered structure with picnic benches,
places to sit, all that. On the other
side, in the little area that's kind of
the the courtyard inside like surrounded
by fencing in the building, that'll all
be torn up, rellandscaped, redone, and
we have um those sail type structures
with with poles to hold to give you
shade in there all the time. And they'll
stay up. We'll probably pull down the
winter, but for the most part, they'll
be up all summer. So, that's that'll
happen in the fall um through next
winter. Um I didn't want to hold back
the courts any longer, and we don't want
contractors there while you guys are
playing. So, that's Sorry, it's not done
now, but it'll get done. I'd rather do
it right and not rush through.
>> Dirty. Yeah. Dangerous process.
That's why we're going to do that.
Okay.
>> All right.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> All right. So, I'm motion to close
public portion.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Third.
>> Roll call.
>> Lisa.
>> Commissioner Lang Grant.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes. Mayor
>> Creable.
>> Yes. So I will just interject that we
are just to recap the uh resolution 167
will be 65 will be at age 65 $100 for
seniors. players will be 120. Based on
the conversation we had, we will look
into property owner, non-propy owner. We
will look at improving and upgrades to
uh court reserve reservations
and we will also open up uh vehicles for
those in the pickle ball community to
open uh fundraising
um opportunities.
>> Yeah, we
>> So, I had my own senior moment. What did
you decide on the age cut off? 62.
>> 65.
>> 65.
>> 65. Okay.
Three more years for those folk
those youngsters. Uh
>> bring your Medicare card.
>> Make Medicare price. May I have a motion
to close the workshop portion of the
meeting and call to order the regular
portion of the meeting?
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langra.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creel.
>> Yes. May have approval. Motion to
approve minutes from the May 7th special
meeting. So moved.
>> Second.
>> Second. Roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Lang Grant.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes. Mayor Creable.
>> Yes. We have no ordinance introductions
this evening. May I have
May?
>> I'll wait till the room clears and we'll
have some quiet here.
May I have a motion to open for public
hearing ordinance 009?
This is uh amending chapter 220 code of
the Atlantic City of Ender uh the rates
related to water usage. May I have a
motion?
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Second.
>> I have roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langrass.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Crabel.
>> Yes.
>> So that's open to the public.
>> Open the public for public hearing.
Anyone wish to comment on ordinance 009
water usage? Nobody jumping up. Anybody
on Zoom wish to comment on this
ordinance?
>> Seeing none, may I have a motion to
close public hearing on ordinance 009?
>> I'll make that motion.
>> Second.
>> Second.
>> Commissioner Lang.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes. Fair Creable.
>> Yes. I have a motion to adopt ordinance
009 on water usage as described.
>> Make a motion to adopt ordinance 2026-
009.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langra.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes. Mayor
>> Creel.
>> Yes. I have a motion to open for public
hearing ordinance 010
regarding uh or regarding uh code of the
city of Ventner as the relates to water
and sewer. This is just sewer. Sewer.
I'm sorry. This is sewer.
>> I'll make that motion.
>> Second.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Commissioner Langria.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creable.
>> Yes. Would anybody like to speak about
sewer ordinances?
>> Anybody on Zoom wish to comment on
ordinance 010?
>> Yep.
>> Hearing none. Can I have a motion to
close public hearing on ordinance 010?
>> Make that motion.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langria.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Creable.
>> Yes. I have a motion to adopt ordinance
010 regarding sewers rates.
>> I'll make the motion to adopt ordinance
2026-010.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. L.
>> Commissioner Langria.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creable. Yes. May I have a motion
to adopt resolutions 2026-155
through 2026-166
by consent as described in lengthy
manner during the workshop.
>> I'll make that motion.
>> Second.
>> Roll call. E.
>> Commissioner Langrias.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mentos.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creable.
>> Yes.
And I have a motion to
adopt resolution
167 with amendments stating that um
contingent on the ability of the uh
court reserve to um to operate a senior
discount a senior rate at 65 years of
age for 100 for $100 and general player
for $120 $120. I have a I'll make that
motion.
Second. I
>> have a roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Lang.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes. Mayor
>> Creable.
>> No.
>> I have a motion to approve bills and
payrolls.
>> Make that motion. Get them from her
first.
>> Please cut you off.
>> Can I have bills and payrolls, please?
>> Payables for this period is 6,161,34924.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Can I have a
motion to approve?
>> No, I'll make that motion.
>> Second. Second.
>> Roll call. Lisa.
>> Commissioner Langra.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creel.
>> Yes. Uh, no. No announcements or safety
reports, but I'm sure we have some
commissioner reports as we get into
summer. Would you like to go first,
Commissioner Mento?
>> Sure. So, uh, revenue and finance is
business as usual. and we have our CFO
here who's been very busy the last few
months. Um, but as far as more um timely
um events coming up um on May 29th we
have the Betner Homeschool Association
color run at Ski Beach. So come on out
and support the school. That's at 5:00
p. a.m. on May 31st. Also at Ski Beach
is the Phillies tailgate
300 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. So we'll be
watching the Phillies game. On June 6 is
Lour to Down Beach at Newport Avenue
12:00 noon. June 7th is the American
Cancer Society Bikeathon at Ski Beach at
11:00 a.m. June 13th is Dean Randazzo
Cancer Foundation fundraiser at Ski
Beach at 11:00 a.m.
And uh we should have another meeting
before these next ones, but I'll go
through them quickly. June 27 and 28 is
the citywide yard sale from 9:00 a.m. to
12:00 p.m. June 27 is schools out for
summer concert at Newport Avenue. And
the band is Kick It Out Tribute Band.
And uh June 29 is movie night at Ski
Beach at 5:30 p.m.
And um stay tuned for uh the concerts
that'll start later. And everything is
on our Facebook page, Vetner City
special events if you want to know
what's going on and our Vetner city
Facebook page. So everything I just said
is on that page plus some
question.
>> Um continuing with getting ready for the
summer with uh we're rolling out our our
beach mats going over the dunes. Every
year we add a couple more um repairs. We
had our GIF inspection on the boardwalk
and and other areas of the city. So,
public works will be out doing some
repairs on some of the playground issues
that are always always pop up. Um some
stuff on the board the old section of
the boardwalk. None of the new stuff
needs to be repaired except one light.
One light keeps going out. So, we're
trying to figure out why one light's
going out. Um engineering is on that. Um
moving forward with uh I just saw some
emails back and forth on the leadline
service. We're waiting for the state to
approve the IBA bank to approve our
specs and and plans so we can go out to
bid for those items to get that that
project started. We wouldn't start till
the fall, but we want to get a bid out
over the summer and get a contractor in
ready to do the work for phase one which
will start in the Heights.
>> Um I'm sorry,
>> another meeting coming up for the
public.
>> Yeah, we do. I don't know the date of
that. It's in June sometime.
>> Actually, the same day as the yard sale,
>> right? Yeah, it's we have another
meeting.
>> Yeah, I recommend going to that meeting.
It's very informative, very wellrun,
>> very they answer. It's very well very
well put together.
>> Going to tell Ernie had that posted.
>> She's posted a couple times. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yep.
>> Um last you'll notice that some
landscaping has been done around city
hall. The library still in progress. And
then up in North Beach, we re redid
those um the islands that were done
through that landscaping project. Um,
and I also update on the Dorset Avenue
uh, streetscape program. Um, both Matt
and Jim Retellup made me aware and Tom
helped me get into this. We're going to
get the design stuff, the design process
of that paid for by state grant. Um, so
we won't have to pay consultant to do
it. It's through a TAP program. Um, that
is paid for through the state. Um, one
of our consultant engineers is on that
list. So I'm very comfortable with that.
be able to bring somebody in that we're
comfortable with that we already have in
our pool
>> um collars. We're we're hopeful to be
able to use Collier's um engineering to
do that work.
>> That's great.
>> Um so it'll be free design and then free
money to do the work.
>> That's great.
>> So
>> but the numbers are huge. So you have to
So I I just want to re let you repeat
that we have a 940 thou $80,000 grant to
do the actual physical work, right? and
the potential for a grant to do the
actual design work over and above that
>> 750
>> 700 750,000
>> I don't know it's going to cost that
that's what's
>> I'm hoping they're not going to charge
$750,000
to design a $900,000 the numbers just
don't work there
>> right well you never know
>> anything anything we get for free we're
going to we're going to try and get so
>> right and it's cost
>> and we have to work it's actually only
two like two
>> yeah we do have to work with the county
on this so that it's another concern we
have to work with the county to make
sure they're okay with what we're
proposing,
>> right?
>> Um, and move forward. We will have once
we kind of get with that contractor,
that consultant, we'll have some some
meetings like we did with the
streetscape up there to get input. Um,
more of a a workshop kind of meetings
where we can bring people in that are
interested that neighborhood and folks
that have a care to put, you know,
comments in along that that uh
>> great
>> that thing. So,
>> bridge is starting to look nice.
>> Yeah. Well, I wanted to pull this stuff
off, right? That's it.
>> I think they ran into more than they
anticipated every time, but the guys
there working are it's really going to
be a
>> great. Yeah.
>> I have one more thing to say. Tom, thank
you for all your help on the budget. All
our questions, all my questions, even at
the 11th hour, Amy also and Leon, you
know, Leon's the bomb. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um,
>> I I do want you to know that I
complained about you asking questions
that quarter after five.
But it was a good question.
>> It was a good question.
>> Got it. Yep. Um
I I I echo those. Thanks. Thank you. Um
the uh in early June, you have Well, I'm
looking forward to the tour to Down
Beach. Saturday, June 6, there is a
bikeon which is kind of independent of
the city, but that is always a big
event. Brings lots of people from
Philadelphia
>> and it's a big event for our ski beach,
right?
>> The cancer society. the cancer society.
>> June 7th.
>> Um we do have public land sale coming up
on June 9th.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh public auction of city owned land. Um
there is two parcels. One is uh which
was mentioned earlier, but I just want
to reiterate uh if anybody wants if we
can get that word out. the Jackson
Avenue uh one on both on Veterary
Avenue, one closer to Jackson Avenue is
an empty city- owned lot uh that is
advertised at the appraised value of
$152,200
starting that
>> that's the minimum bid. It's going to be
auction
>> and the second parcel is
u locally known as the one next to
Shalom PETA which is um the minimum bid
is $138,000.
These are these are exactly the
appraised values.
>> Um so we're hoping on
uh to have lots of bidders. Apparently
there is some interest in it.
>> Um then we have Paddle for Cause coming
up in June 13th. Um and I do have two uh
public safety forums. One this Saturday
at 10 o'clock for the Ventner Heights
contingent at the recck department. Um,
so anybody that lives in Veteror Heights
and wants to talk about uh wants to hear
a short presentation on the public
safety departments uh and then have an
open uh listening session for uh public
safety and uh things uh in that in their
specific community regarding public
safety. I'll be there this Saturday at
10:00 at the recck department building
at um and uh then the community yard
sale at the end of the end of the end of
the the month, June 27th, which is uh
and that I guess that entire weekend.
>> Um
>> both days we changed that. Y addited
second day. I have one other thing if I
jump on
>> and this this came to light through some
some public comment on our on uh it was
an email I guess I got from a resident.
Um, folks are defacing our boardwalk.
Um, stickers. Um, PD did reach out to
that store. They said, you know, we
didn't do it. It's people buy these
stickers and they put them on things.
So, if you see somebody doing it, tell
them to stop. If you see somebody doing
it, call the police. We will prosecute
these folks. We spent a lot of money on
this boardwalk. We're going to spend a
lot more money on the second phase of
it. Um, folks just shouldn't be defacing
it. You know, graffiti, we can deal with
stickers. we'll deal with it. But we
really don't appreciate folks defacing
public property. Um, so I appreciate the
PD going down there and reaching out to
the store. I'm not going to name them,
>> but you know, it's it's defacing our
property and it's not appropriate. So,
just want to make that statement.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. Um, thank you. The last thing I
had was uh uh junior lifeguard program
starts up in uh June 1st will be the
online uh signups. That is a huge
program for us. Last year there were 230
kids ages 5 through nine and 115 kids.
On the second week, ages 10 through 14.
Captain um uh um Megan um she uh
Holland, she um runs that and uh with
all the younger guards as well. So, it's
a place for the younger instructors to
to learn um uh the organizational side
of it. It's really some like a a just a
great hometown thing for uh for 35
kids roughly. Uh they get for $20 and
they get a t-shirt. I don't know how.
Maybe we need to raise that rate. I'm
kidding. Um
I'm kidding. Um so that is a great
program. Uh any other commissioner
comments or reports?
Uh there's one last beach badges.
That is the beach badge fees go up on
Lisa, fill me in on Monday,
>> June 1st at 3 o'clock. That is a Sunday.
>> May Well, May 31st, right?
>> Right.
>> Sunday. Sunday's
>> Monday is June 1st. So,
>> yeah. So, if you want to get the reduced
fee of $10 and you want to get your
senior tags, you have to do it by Sunday
at 3 p.m.
>> Sunday at 3 p.m. June 1st.
>> All beach tags. No more senior tags. All
tags $20. No exceptions.
>> No exceptions. There's no senior tags
after that. So, all tags are $20 after
June 1st at 3 pm. Please, Dana, put that
out there. Um because there will be
people that don't hear, people that hear
hearsay, but there is no exception after
Sunday, June 1st at 3 p.m. Text.
>> Sunday's May 31st. So, after Sunday,
>> after Sunday,
>> effective June 1st.
>> Effective June.
>> Effective June 1st. $20. Got
>> it.
that we're starting our summer schedule
for a commission meeting.
>> Right.
>> So, we'll just be having one meeting in
June, one in July, and one in August.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> One in June, one in July, and one in
August.
Any other commission or reports or
comments?
>> Nope.
>> Good.
>> All right. At this time, I get a motion
to open the meeting for public comment.
Anybody has wish to say anything about
the city of Ventner? Um, I have a motion
to open a meeting for public comment.
>> Oh, make a motion. Motion to public
comment.
>> Motion. I'll make the motion. I
>> second.
>> Roll call. L.
>> Commissioner Langria.
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento.
>> Yes.
>> Creable.
>> Yes.
>> Hello. Anybody has something to say
about the city of Veror?
>> Hello.
>> State your name and address.
>> And Moscow 209 North Lafayette Avenue.
Um, I I want to say publicly what I
said, Tim, to you, um, excuse me,
privately and to Lance privately. Thank
you so much for what you guys did and
and and Rick is here with regards to our
issue at Calvert and and Lafayette. It's
a obvious, you know, public safety issue
and you guys, as I said privately, you
addressed it very quickly. Uh I think
there was four
correct me four major things that you
you that you did to correct it and it
has worked really really well. So I want
to thank you for that. Now we're getting
to towards the end of uh Thank you,
Maria, but you never picked up the
phone. I'm only kidding. Stop it. Stop
it. I'm only playing with you. I'm
playing. I'm only playing. Um, so we're
getting to the end of the school year
and we know that the traffic situation
will get be less and less. It's never
going to be perfect. That's why what you
did is really appreciated.
I I'm hoping that maybe next year, maybe
prior before school starting, we can sit
down and talk about just that corner. I
don't know if it needs a um a crossing
guard or or or what. It's it's it is
still, you know, kind of tough, but it's
mostly during, you know, pickup, drop
off, and things like that. We recognize
that, like I said, we recognize that
it's never going to be perfect. And just
to thank you guys really publicly for
what you did. You did it very quickly.
And Rick, you too. You got you respond,
you guys respond so fast. And and and we
do appreciate it. One thing on beach
badges, Belmar is $80.
>> $80.
>> $80 is Belmar. $12 for a daily pass. So,
I think we have it pretty good here in
Ventner. And I think our beaches here
are wellmaintained. They're well
guarded. You know, that's I'm not saying
anything that's hasn't been said before.
So, I think in in the grand scheme of
things, um we're we're really in a good
spot with that. And uh thank you. It's
good to see you, Tommy, and you too,
Leon and Amy.
>> Thank you, uh Ken. And and just to
follow up on that intersection, there
was a a bike and pedestrian study done
that recommended that there were other
improvements done to that intersection.
So I'll bring that back
>> to PD and and to Lance's department to
see what they can do. I know that there
was some things that were done just in
paint, but I think if you see down by it
was paint where they where they've added
>> some structures at the time, it was just
beyond our capacity for financially. But
we can look at I think that we can look
at other calming opportunities.
>> Well, look, that's great. I I I know you
put the um pedestrian crosswalk signs
out.
>> One was hit or removed and put back and
which is they're they're a big help. The
lights the lights around the stop signs.
>> Yeah, they help a lot.
>> And and the sensors, boy, they pick you
up pretty far down.
>> They do.
>> Yeah. Yeah, they do pick you up pretty
far down. But, uh, it, like I said,
guys, it's never going to be perfect and
we know we're going to have an issue
pick up and drop off during during this
the school, you know, during the school
year. So, um, but whatever we can
discuss in the future. So, so thank you.
Thank you for that.
>> Get there. Any other comments from the
public?
Of
>> course.
TKER venture city.
Earlier this evening, I voluntarily
ended my thoughts and ideas and comments
on the budget to comply with the city's
policy of limiting the public's input to
3 minutes. I would have thought with a
6-centent tax increase and a 10%
increase in base water and sewer
charges, you would have told me to go on
with my thoughts and hopefully maybe a
suggestion that would have reduced this
burdensome amount on the taxpayers. The
potential savings from suggestions may
have outweighed the three-minute
limitation on the public's input. After
all, a blind squirrel finds an acorn
every now and then.
>> We didn't stop it.
>> Not doing so made me think of an irony
of another event earlier this week. On
Monday, Memorial Day, we heard heartfelt
remarks honoring that men and women who
gave their lives defending our freedoms.
Those comments were sincere, meaningful,
and appreciated. Two of those freedoms
that so many gave their lives for and we
speak so proudly of are the freedom of
speech and the right of citizens to
participate in their government and
address their officials. Rights secured
by those sacrifices. Yet when residents
come before this governing body and
freedom comes with sometimes a stopwatch
attached to it. Sometimes we are told
you may speak but only for three
minutes. Now I understand meetings must
be orderly and efficient. I'm not
suggesting public comment should be
unlimited, but when residents are
discussing taxes, debt, public spending,
redevelopment, or concerns affecting
their families and neighborhoods, 3
minutes often feel less like a
meaningful participation and more like a
procedural formality. The very freedoms
we celebrated on Memorial Day include
the ability of citizens to petition and
question their government without
unnecessary restrictions. Public comment
should not simply be something we allow
because the law requires it. It should
be something this governing body values
and citizens demand because informed
citizen participation strengthens
democracy. The irony is hard to ignore.
We honor those who die protecting
freedom while the public is reminded to
hurry up when exercising it. Again, I
understand the need for structure and
civility, but perhaps we should ask
ourselves whether the current approach
encourages genuine public engagement or
merely attack checks a box before moving
on to the next agenda item. If we truly
value the freedoms our veterans fought
for and the words spoken on Monday have
true meaning, then we should strive to
make public participation more
meaningful, not merely more manageable.
Thank you.
>> Thanks for your comments. Uh, do we have
>> Just to be clear, we didn't stop him
from speaking the last time.
>> No,
>> he spoke for over 10 minutes.
>> Thank you. Thank you for your comments.
Well, we're
>> Well, now you you made a comment. I
think I should have Do I have a right to
respond?
>> No, that's typical. I won't respond.
>> Stopping you. Go ahead. If you'd like to
respond,
>> you didn't stop me. But when I said I
had more comments, you certainly didn't
say go ahead. When I voluntarily said,
"I've exceeded my three minutes," you
didn't say, "Well, go ahead."
>> He says, "Let it go." No one told
>> you were having you were negotiating
with yourself there, Tim. I'm sorry.
You're not You weren't conversating with
us.
>> I would I would have thought you would
have I thought I would have thought that
my elected officials would have said,
"Go ahead. We're interested in what you
have to say." And not let it go. That's
just again my opinion.
>> All right. Your opinion. Thank you for
your comments. If you have uh may a
motion to close public comment, please.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Second.
>> Thank you. Roll call.
>> Commissioner Langraph?
>> Yes.
>> Commissioner Mento?
>> Yes.
>> Mayor Creable?
>> Yes. Do we have any executive session?
>> Not tonight.
>> No.
May I have a motion to adjurnn?
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Commissioner Lang,
>> yes.
>> Commissioner Mento,
>> yes.
>> Mayor Cable,
>> yes. Meeting is journed.